Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

In the long term, Brexit might be doing Labour a favour, because it's done. Labour doesn't need to sit on the fence any more, but there are still going to be plenty of battles to be fought on issues such as workers' right.

I am not sure of all the ins and outs of the Labour Party but I did think that those in momentum and the unions, and the Labour MPs, each has a vote Annie.

It sounds as if the unions may be going in the right direction - whatever the outcome - as, from your analysis they didn't have MPs who actually represented the majority.

It will not all be about Labour though, although I appreciate this is a thread on that. What will happen if, in the end, we don't get the leave arrangements Johnson has promised, or don't get sufficient trade deals with other countries, or working practices do turn out to be worse? Before this is all over the current ERG Conservative party could have changed. Johnson calls himself a "one-nation" Conservative but threw others, who saw themselves like that, out. What if the Conservative Party splits? What if we get PR?

The only thing any party can do is stand on the principles it believes in. You left the party that stood for the person who lives only on the income from his work Annie. How can anything else be called "Labour".

MaizieD, in regard to your post @10:26 today, it has always been the Lay activists in the Labour movement that have set the agenda, the policies and carryout the day to day maintenance of the organisation and its structures in both the unions and the Labour Constituency Parties.

Those are the persons who turn out on cold wet nights in winter to attend meetings and also represent union members at grievance and disciplinary hearings with their employers. That is where I often meet such activists and in that have huge respect for all they do.

Therefore it is, in my opinion, their views who should be paramount in the Labour movement and if others should wish to see anything different to those views, they always have the option of getting up off their backsides and carrying out similar to the above.

Grandad I for one am not arguing that corbyn wasn't democratically elected but rather that it was a massive error in terms of the labour party.

GracesGran I left the party because of it’s anti semetic and
terrorist supporting leader.

Grandad43 I turned out for meetings and canvassing for over 50 years, as you are not a member of the party I don’t think you are a person to judge party members work for the party.

Galaxy, had all the Labour MPs in the House of Commons accepted the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader and then got one hundred percent behind him, perhaps it would not have been a "massive error in terms of the labour party" as you put it.

What those MPs did was give the extream right-wing press in Britain the biggest political gift they have ever received.

Anniebach Quote [ Grandad43 I turned out for meetings and canvassing for over 50 years, as you are not a member of the party I don’t think you are a person to judge party members work for the party.] End Quote.

Yes Anniebach, and as you have stated on this forum so many times, since the Second World War we have had in Britain many long periods of Tory rule.

So much then for the Labour Party you turned out to campaign for. Not a great success even by your own words.

Returning to who will be leader. I think whoever steps forward will be the immediate target of the MSM, so unless your past is absolutely squeaky lean you probably wouldn't want to do it. I do think the prospect of having your past investigated and your character torn to shreds will put off many able people especially women with families. It also occurs to me that many leaders of the past would not have survived the S**t storm that Corbyn was subjected to. Blair for example would have been pilloried as a posh boy slumming, and a closet catholic.

trisher, I one hundred percent agree with your post @11:09 today.

I tend to agree trisher - except it didn't seem to matter what Boris Johnson did. His teflon status seems to resemble Trump's. It would not matter how many skeletons tumbled out of his cupboard. Normal rules do not apply.

Boris is interesting isn't he. But I do think his (shall we say foibles) were always presented in a rather light way. I would imagine if he had been a Labour leader his ex-partners and even his children would have been much more widely publicised and questioned. Not to mention the Bullingdon club exploits (which really never made the headlines). So he came across as a bit of a naughty boy who was trying to settle down with his new love. Funny isn't it.

I am surprised there is little understanding of the point Grandad is making.

To me it is a perfectly feasible position for the Unions to ' reject' those MP's in the Parliamentary Labour Party that are not compatible with the far left Unions agenda that managed to resurface when the Jeremy For Leader / Momentum/Labour Party was formed and Corbyn and McDonnell shaped/controlled the Labour Party by getting the backing of the Jeremy For Leader/Momentum backing.

The fact is from day one Momentum were discussing /promoting the ' Deselection' of Parliamentary Labour Party MP's who they considered ' Blairites'. The strength of the Labour Membership was now in the hands of those who returned to Labour who were once to the far left or new members who were/are in awe of Corbyn/McDonnell politics and economics.

So why would the Unions carry on supporting those same re-elected MP's who they see as loosing the General Election???

After all it can't be the fact it was their ideology that was at fault, not their ideology that caused the worst defeat of Labour for years it must have been the media and those ' Blairites' that caused such humiliation.

The Labour Party from the minute Corbyn /Momentun/ Mc Cluskey took over the Labour Party the Labour Party ' SPLIT '
We saw this in action by seeing things such as the Corbyn '' '' '' ' Hostile List ' which graded the PLP MP's as to where their likely alliegence to Corbyn lies. It was pretty accurate but those classed as ' hostile' were fair game for ' deselection' and we all witnessed the bullying/intimidation some Labour MP's have gone through and that testimony is from their own mouths not the right wing media.

So now Labour is in the grip of soul searching, in the worst place politically it has been for years, why is there not a consideration the Unions may well decide to ' pull the plug' on the PLP MP's.?

Grandad is correct in saying the Labour Party " IS ' beholden to the Unions for it's finance. The Unions ' DO ' hold the trump card and the Unions may well cast aside those who do not agree with their left/Far Left vision of the 70'80' Militant Tendency. The Unions with the help of Momentum/Corbyn/McDonnell have secured the Labour Party is lock /stock and barrel in the grip of the left/Far Left. They hold the nuts and bolts of how the Labour Party functions from the National Executive Committee down.

In my opinion it is quite possibly the answer to a question I raised on Gransnet years ago when it was clear from day one of Corbyn/Momentum were holding the reigns ' COULD LABOUR SPLIT ' the answer is ' yes, most probably'.

PS

If that happened the title of Labour Party will retained by the Labour Party and Unions of which it was formed.

trisher a closest Catholic ? Oh the shame, worse than supporting the IRA and supporting anti semetism ?

Oh POGS it has been tried. Have you forgotten Chuka etc? They were going to form a new party weren't they ? Didn't a lot of people post their support on GN? And where are they now those MPs? -Lib Dems, or forgotten (or both). MPs are politically savvy you know and if you watch someone jump in a puddle and drown, you tend not to follow them.

Who said it was worse Annie All I said was it would now be used. Try reading and understanding rather than twisting to your own ends.

trisher how can being a catholic be vilified by the media ?

I believe that there is much that I and many in the Labour movement would agree with in POGS above post @11:59 today, although I would perhaps not use such harsh terminology. ?

However, it may be that at least some in the Parliamentary Labour Party are seeing "the writing on the wall" in regards to the future support of the Parliamentary Party by the broader Labour movement.

I believe the so called enquiry into the reasons for the election loss, and inviting a leading trade union representative onto that body is a recognition that some at least recognise the "way the tide is beginning to flow" in regard to the above support.

There are also media reports that Rebeca Long-Bailey has stated that should she be elected to lead the Parliamentary party, she will rule that body with "an iron fist."

The above is most defiantly what is required in my view with the likes Margret Hodge having the Labour Party whip removed as soon as it was known that she covertly recorded a two hour meeting with Jeremy Corbyn and then tried to release that recording to the right wing press.

Under Long-Bailey or whoever else is elected as leader the above I would very much hope would be carried out and she would also be expelled from the party very quickly.

If the Labour Party and wider movement are to remain in being as it is now such discipline applied towards all sections of both left and right is going to be very necessary going forward.

"iron fist". -be afraid is my response, be afraid anyone who hopes for a LP that's electable.

Ruling with an iron fist, that should work. You can only laugh, can't you. ???

Well, it would seem that Boris Johnson is ruling the Conservative Party in the House of Commons with an "iron fist". He has banned Tory MPs from taking part in the BBC Today radio program even when they wish to, and let it not be forgotten that he withdrew the whip from many longstanding MPs that disagreed with him in the last Parliament.

However, with many on this forum, that sort of behaviour is acceptable in the Tory Party but would be very unacceptable in the Labour Party in the future.

You can only laugh can't you?

I do so hope the Labour Party choose Emily Thornberry, David Lammy or Rebecca Long-Bailey as their leader then they'll never get elected again. There's a sweeping statement for you.

But true quizqueen ,

grandad43, Emily Thornberry and Starmer were not allowed to speak to the media during the election. An iron fist?

Margaret Hodge was re-elected and who can blame her for not
recording a meeting with a man who attended a wreath laying ceremony but didn’t know if he was involved, who defended an anti semetic wall mural but then said ‘I didn’t look closely ‘
Who was on an anti Semitic site but ‘I didn’t post’

Who said with triumph after losing the election ‘we won the
argument’ huh ?

Please not David Lammy.