Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

You're probably right POGS. However, I know a number of Labour Party members who left because of Corbyn. I also know some LibDems who would vote Labour, unless the LibDems can find a good leader. They wouldn't vote for a left-wing Labour Party, but would vote for a left of centre one. There's going to be realignment of Labour Party voters, one way or the other.

Ilovecheese Mon 10-Feb-20 14:10:31

'I support the policies put forward by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. I am following the leadership contest but do not know a great deal about the internal administration of the NEC etc. So don't feel qualified to comment on their internal workings.'
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The ' workings ' of the NEC have been/are totally connected to the Corbyn!/Momentum Labour Party and understanding what and how it has now taken over the nuts and bolts of the Corbyn/Momentum Party has a huge bearing on Labour to date.

Dependent on who is elected as Leader might possibly in time alter the NEC as it is now, who knows.

Apologies POGS, as stated I have had little time in the last week to study all the happenings in the Labour leadership election. However, should any Constituency Labour Party believe that the National Executive has acted in any way "out of rule" or inappropriately on any matter then that CLP always has the power to refer the matter to the Annual Delegate Conference Standing orders Committee.

The Annual Delegate Conference is the highest rule and policymaking authority within the entire Labour movement. In that, the National Executive on a day to day basis exists to carry out the rules and polices set out by the delegate conference in the year between each occurrence.

The Conference Standing Orders Committee is continuously maintained to ensure that NEC does carry out the above. Therfore, and as stated, any constituency Labour Party has the power to take any grievance to the Standing Orders Committee should they believe that any rule or policy has been breached by the NEC. That committee then has the power to end or curtail any clear breach of rule or policy brought about by the National Executive.

I think that Starmer has been quite lefftward leaning from the start. He distanced himself from the Blair Brown era quite explicitly.

“A Labour party that strays too far from its values, loses. In the end, the Labour party strayed too far from its values between 1997 and 2010.”

However, by the very nature of campaigning for the leadership he has to appeal to a broad spectrum of views within the LP, so he's not going to frighten the horses by appearing to be too left wing. I suspect that if he wins he might subtly lead the party further left than people think he is. But he also has to make Labour electable and win back an awful lot of voters.

Grandad, (or any LP member). Can you tell me if the ballot is one member one vote, with no block voting? I've assumed that to be so but your post leaves me in some doubt.

MaizieD, in regard to your above post @16:12 today, the election is on the basis of one member one vote. However, they do record the numbers of affiliate members who register to vote from the trade unions and other affiliated organisations, and I believe, they also record the number of actual votes returned from the same.

But there is no guarantee that affiliate members will vote in the way their affiliated organisation recommends?

Just so MaizieD. However, those that register to register to vote, and do actually vote are very much in the main grassroots trade union activists. Therefore they are highly likely to vote inline with the nomination of their organisation and many of those persons are hard left in their views.

The above is stated from meeting those activists while carrying out industrial safety courses within the Unite Union over many years. However, it is also the experience that you would not realize that they hold such views when initially meeting them, as often nicer people you would not wish to meet.

Not at all how the Daily Mail, The Sun or other such publications so offten portray them. ?

as often nicer people you would not wish to meet.

What, no horns, tails and tridents?

There are a lot of people on here who won't believe you

Grandad

Thank you for your reply, I did note you had been busy.

You say:-

"Therfore, and as stated, any constituency Labour Party has the power to take any grievance to the Standing Orders Committee should they believe that any rule or policy has been breached by the NEC. That committee then has the power to end or curtail any clear breach of rule or policy brought about by the National Executive."
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I understand the procedures of the NEC and I believe CLP's have made grievances but the point is the NEC procedure introduced for the last General Election known as the ' Long List ' has happened as has the General Election and the debate about it's use is of no consequence, the NEC candidate are now in situ as MP'S.

The question, point I am making was the NEC ' Long List ' was seen by many as a ' STITCH UP' certainly thought of as ' UNDERHANDED '.

Maizie d

Re Starmer you said:-

"I suspect that if he wins he might subtly lead the party further left than people think he is. But he also has to make Labour electable and win back an awful lot of voters."
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I agree with you. Early in the thread I posted :-

Keir Starmer has said :-

" What Corbyn bought to the Labour party was a change of emphasis - radicalism that really matters - we need to build on that, not oversteer and go back to a bygone age."

So if you vote for Keir Starmer does that inform you enough it could well be the same old policies trotted out under a different cloak.?"
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I remain of the opinion he is seen as charming and undoubtedly speaks with a different tone to Long - Bailey but if you listen hard to what he says the only difference is personality and the belief some hold that he is more to the centre. He was stronger on the subject of an EU Referendum and Remaining in the EU and that will certainly be in his favour among many.

'Not at all how the Daily Mail, The Sun or other such publications so offten portray them. ?'

'What, no horns, tails and tridents?'
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As we are ' off on one'.

Hammer and Sickle, Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, Das Kapital, calling for Insurrection etc. etc.

I guess some form their opinions / portrayals by reading The Daily Mail and the Sun et al but others will do likewise by reading The Guardian or The Morning Star et al. Others simply listen, watch, read and establish for themselves who/what is worth taking note of.

Right old hooha brewing isn't there in the Long - Bailey camp and Nandy camp too if I am not mistaken. !

I think it's going to be very difficult to ' EXPEL ' Labour Party members because of their opinion/view over trans rights issues.

Blimey.

Pity they didn’t speak out against the anti semetism in the party,

I agree absolutely POGS about this latest issue about trans rights. Have you read the pledge ? It’s awful - so anti women and also I would argue defamatory in parts. I hope KS doesn’t sign upto it. If I had a vote, it would be a deal breaker for me.

POGS, its election time in the Labour movement and as is usual everybody involved is throwing the muck. ?

Two issues are I feel important in all the mire, the first being that it is increasingly likely that Emily Thornbury will not even make it to the Ballot Form. I believe that had anyone of substance predicted that at the start of this process they would have been laughed out of the party.

The Second matter is the campaign of Long-Bailey which seems to be designed to upset all sectors of the movement. I genuinely feel that it may be that in reality, she does not wish to be party leader. However, with so much effort placed into gaining that position for her by so many in the last year or so, it could be she cannot just pull out.

Anyway POGS it is my wife's birthday today so I have taken much of the day off and promised to take her out for a top of the range slap-up meal and a few drinks this evening. So, better start getting myself ready and into my best "bib and tucker".

Grandad it doesn’t sound as though you’ve picked up on this latest trans issue. Anyway enjoy your celebration and come back later on this

Grandad

Enjoy.

Knights fish and chips in Glastonbury by any chance ?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rebecca-long-bailey-labour-trans-rights-lgbt-women-leadership-election-a9330896.html

A lot of Labour Members will hold different opinions over the trans issue but to call for ' EXPULSIONS ' of Labour Members is going some. It certainly is a belief only one opinion, theirs, is the right one.

I think it’s worse than that POGS much worse. It’s an out and out attack on natal women and their very hard won rights. ?

I think it just exposes the utter misogyny of some in the party. However #expelme being number one trending on twitter has cheered me a little, it means many in the labour party are standing up against this misogyny. Have those leadership candidates learnt nothing from what happened to Jo Swinson?

Galaxy I’ve just listened on catch up to Nandy on R4 Today. Have you heard it? Unbelievable. KS has signed another pledge, not so extreme, but still says TWAW and no mention at all of natal women’s rights. It’s another version of Gilead isn’t it?

I've just listened to the debate between the four candidates on Victoria Live and I have to say that this is the first time for years I have enjoyed and felt I benefited and learned from political debate on the television.

My views on who should win have no influence as I am not an LP member but I don't envy those who have to choose as they have four very interesting and adult (for once) candidates.

I don't have a vote either but I also watched the debate and was struck by how poor RLB was compared to the other three. It is amazing that she could ever have been considered the front runner.

GG when I think of the improvements that have been made in women’s lives in my lifetime and then I see 4 candidates who parrot TWAW and say not one word about the rights of girls and women then I feel sick to my stomach, absolutely sick.

On MN someone has posted ‘TWAW the shortest suicide note in Labour’s history’