Damage done to the UK ALREADY following the elction

Doodledog Exactly!

Well thanks ladies for the pounding. Yes I appreciate that poverty and disadvantaged people have a tough time all year round. Yes there are things is this country that need fixing and yes the election result was not to everyone's liking. And sounding off on Gransnet is somehow going to miraculously change all that.
If you care do something rather than sound off on Gransnet.
Not all conservative voters are bad uncaring people.
The labour party do not necessarily have all the answers.
And when I said give it a rest on Christmas day. I meant the intolerance of other viewpoints and dismissing of other peoples views. Whether you keep Christmas or not it is supposed to be the season of good will and perhaps we can start here.
Rant over.

Tooting people are allowed to express themselves, not fair to police what others talk about or when. You don't have to read it, others like myself may want to and be appreciative of the information.

Tooting If you would like to post a viewpoint explaining why all the things that have been posted are completely acceptable and OK I will read it and consider it. However if all you are doing is saying others are at fault for pointing out and condemning what is happening I will simply ignore you. There may be caring Conservatives but it isn't caring to allow the poorest and weakest to suffer and to keep quiet.
As for the 'season of good will', could you point out which part of your post exhibits this?

Good effort Tooting29 but they'll never get your point. Just let them rant on. They won't change anything but it'll maybe make them feel better.

Jane10, patronising AND uncaring. The Tories would be so proud.

Feel better now Gaga? Lovely

Merry Christmas Jane.

Just read the title as "Damage done to turkey already".

I should hope so too ?

Why don't those who don't like criticisms of Conservative actions stick to their Prosecco and pigs in blankets?

Highlighting ways people who have rubbish lives will suffer 365 days of the year, including Christmas Day, is not "intolerance of other viewpoints and dismissing of other peoples views". It's not a game.

Maybe Marley's Ghost should have left Scrooge to have a good sleep on Christmas Eve.

Tooting, just when were you made head-girl? It's quite ridiculous to tell others what they may and may not talk about because you are celebrating a festival which may or may not be something they celebrate.

No one is ranting except Tooting who seems to have some sort of control issue. Some comments are only there in an attempt to destroy what other people want to talk about. You knew the OP; why join the thread if all you want to do is destroy it?

Jane 10 and Tooting are just trying to inflame something that others wanted. How selfish can you get? I am so fed up with this sort of behaviour on here. I do hope the idea of stopping others doing and saying what they want to do and say will stop in the new year.

Wow, the short memories and hypocrisy on this thread are unbelievable. Do you remember when I started a thread a few weeks ago about "everything that is right in the UK"? And sure enough, the doom mongers and nay sayers herded onto the thread to point out everything that was wrong with the UK, not what is right with it, and what was meant as a feelgood thread soon turned into a political, bitchy and sniping thread for pro EU and pro Labour supporters. The rest of us were ripped apart for expressing our love of our country, rather than constantly commiserating with the less fortunate. Why did some posters join THAT thread if all they wanted to do was destroy it? Yes, I too am so fed up with this sort of behaviour on here and also hope the idea of stopping others doing and saying anything they want to do will stop - but that's not gonna happen, is it, because most of you just don't want to accept that others have different political views. According to you, all Conservative voters are uncaring and selfish - which is simply not true. So yes, suck it up, your left wing propaganda WILL be challenged, just as you challenge others with your holier than thou beliefs.

Opal some people categorically don't do that. You cannot count yourself as one of them.

If it was left-wing propaganda or if the two people where actual making a point contesting what has been said Opal then they would be entering a discussion as others did on your thread. No one, certainly not me, believes one argument should not be contested by another. Perhaps you would like to tell us Opal where this has happened on this thread. All I can see is a lot of foot stamping and two people shouting "Stop it, stop it. You may not discuss these things at Christmas."

Perhaps you would like to enter what is always on GN, as far as I understand, an open discussion just as yours was, and tell us where the OP is wrong or what mediates those actions or anything you feel you could add to the discussion or are you too trying simply to close it down. There is a difference.

Caring for ones country and commiserating with the less fortunate are not mutually exclusive Opal.

I care very much for my country and consider myself very fortunate to have been born here. The reason I care so much is because I had always assumed that the UK was populated by pragmatic people, who had an underlying belief in fairness and caring for all. Those beliefs are being seriously challenged by our government and some of the posters on here.

I hate flag-waving jingoism and refusing to see that "our" way of life is not the only one and that those who were born here down "own" the land. We are here by chance.

I have never been a "pro Labour" supporter and have sometimes been very critical of the Labour Party. Nevertheless, I get lumped in with those pesky "lefties" because I try to view things from a non-party political perspective.

I had hoped for intelligent and rational discussion on GN and it's obvious there are many like-minded posters on here. Unfortunately, too many threads are deliberately scuppered by the Botanical Bullies and their ilk.

We are WAY past the Labour/Conservative discussion Opal. We have a government now. The election is old news. What is NOW under discussion, are the things that are hurting the poor and vulnerable in our country.

No one minds you having an alternative opinion. But if that opinion is shut up anyone that doesn't agree with me or all the things you're saying are 'left wing propaganda' when in fact the things being posted are FACTUAL. Things that are currently either under discussion or being effected in the HOC that are having an adverse affect on the poor and needy in Britain, then telling us to 'shut up' is inappropriate.

If you would like to post some FACTS (include the url of links so we can read the articles about it) NO ONE would mind.

But shut up and left wing propaganda is just childish throwing of toys out of the pram.

No I do not have control issues.
Neither am I or ever have been a head girl.
Neither am I seeking to inflame.
I have dipped in and out adding a few thoughts on the issues of the day.
I have given my thoughts honestly, based on personal experience and my personal values. For this I have been castigated, accused of being a Tory campaigner and now inflaming.
I try to respect peoples points of view and not make personal attacks on people.
Talk is easy hiding behind unknown names. Actions speak louder.
So bye.. you'll not hear from me again.

Good!

I do wish that points could be responded to as they stand, without assumptions about whether they (or the poster who mentions them) is 'left wing' or 'right wing'.

It is all too easy to write people off, as one thing or another, and I really feel that this is a massive problem in what used to be (at least on the surface) a 'united' kingdom.

I have been called both left and right wing on here, simply because I disagreed with someone who considers themselves to be of one wing, and assumed that anyone disagreeing must be from the other. It really doesn't help a sensible discussion to move forward at all.

The OP in this case posted a list of things that have happened since the recent election. Presumably, those who voted Conservative feels that these things are necessary and/or desirable, or they wouldn't have voted as they did, and it is their right to vote for what they believe in. That is the nature of democracy.

What would help, however, is if they either disputed the validity of the claims (although they have all been backed up with links to their sources, so the same would be required to take issue with them), or explained why they think that they needed to happen, or how they are a 'good thing'. Simply writing them off as 'left wing clams' or 'doom mongering' is facile, and doesn't add to any understanding of why so many people voted Conservative.

This country is more divided than I can remember, and a lot of the reason for that seems to me to be that people entrench themselves in their assumptions that if they are 'right' in their opinions, then everyone who holds a different one is 'wrong'. This way of thinking cannot work where opinions are concerned, as by definition they are not 'right' or 'wrong', but opinions.

FWIW, I voted Labour, and to Remain, and regret neither, but I don't assume that Tories are 'wrong' to feel as they do - their opinions are simply different from mine, and we have different moral codes and outlooks on life, which is ok in a democracy. I would be interested to hear more than simple rebuttals, or cries of 'propaganda' from those who voted differently, though. The point of a discussion group is that people share their views and maybe change their minds a bit having heard the views of other people.

Christmas is a grim time for millions of people in the UK for all sorts of reasons. For them, Christmas Day is much the same as every other day of the year, except they see people around them being frivolous and telling them to shut up because they're "supposed" to be having a great time.

What you disparagingly label as left-wing politics isn't a game. It's reality for far too many people in this country and doesn't just disappear because it's Christmas Day.

It's ironic really. I'm an atheist, but even I recognise the morality of Christmas Day and the messages of Jesus.

Very well said Doodledog.

If it is so jolly in China or Russia why don't people who favour that way of life emigrate there

What the heck does that have to do with anything? I don't speak Mandarin nor Russian. Why on earth would I want to emigrate to China or Russia? I was born in the UK, as were all my ancestors, I'm British and I love the liberalism and pragmatism which used to be so much part of the UK. It's never been perfect and we've always had the right to express grievances. It seems to me that some people on GN don't want to recognise that the country is heading in a direction which contradicts everything I've ever held dear.

What us the reasoning behind that comment Dottynan. It really seems to make no sense; perhaps you could explain.

Well, it wasn't that long ago that GagaJo was singing the praises of Communist China, comparing the political system very favourably compared to that of the UK!
Perhaps that's what prompted Dottynans comment!