Gransnet forums

News & politics

Iranian retaliation has begun!

(97 Posts)
grannyactivist Wed 08-Jan-20 00:37:07

sad
The Pentagon confirmed that al-Asad air base in Iraq’s Anbar province, and Erbil base in northern Iraq, which both host a US contingent, had been hit by a salvo of more than a dozen missiles launched from Iran.

My heart is heavy tonight for those who have family members out there.

rosecarmel Sun 12-Jan-20 01:26:15

trisher is correct- Impeachment and second term- Trump is all the Republicans have going for them now- They've forfeited everything they stood for as a party, as individual representatives, as descent human beings- There's no going back now- They're all in for the win, no matter the consequences-

Yehbutnobut Sat 11-Jan-20 22:34:57

I know exactly why Trump assassinated the general.

Yehbutnobut Sat 11-Jan-20 22:34:13

This would not have happened but for the assassination.

trisher Sat 11-Jan-20 21:54:39

I don't know Opal do you? There could be all sorts of reasons one being his impeachment and another a desire to be elected for a second term.

Opal Sat 11-Jan-20 21:21:54

Ask yourself why did Trump target the general?

trisher Sat 11-Jan-20 20:24:13

Ah so if Trump hadn't targeted the general the Iranians would still have fired a missile?

Opal Sat 11-Jan-20 19:06:35

The only ones to blame are the Iranians, whether it was an "accident" or not.

Yehbutnobut Sat 11-Jan-20 18:13:21

I hold Trump to blame for the shooting down of the airliner.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jan-20 17:52:35

Jabber it was much more complex than that as the following (from Wiki) shows. I think the only fair conclusion is that both shooting downs were dreadful accidents that happen in the context of conflict. Think of all the ‘friendly fire’ incidents that happen. I think there’s enough legitimate criticism to be levelled at both the US snd Iran over the years without implying that either would deliberately and maliciously shoot down a civilian passenger aircraft

‘According to the U.S. government, USS Vincennes mistakenly identified the airliner as an attacking military fighter and misidentified its flight profile as being similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; however, the cruiser's Aegis Combat System recorded the plane's flight plan as climbing (not descending as in an attack run) at the time of the incident.[24] The flight had originated at Bandar Abbas, which served as both a base for Iranian F-14 operations and as a hub for commercial civilian flights.[10] According to the same reports, Vincennes unsuccessfully tried to contact the approaching aircraft, seven times on the military emergency frequency and three times on the civilian emergency frequency. This civilian aircraft was not equipped to pick up military frequencies and the messages on the civilian emergency channel could have been directed at any aircraft. More confusion arose as the hailed speed was the ground speed, while the pilot's instruments displayed airspeed, a 50-knot (93 km/h) difference.[29]

This was finalized in a report by Admiral William Fogarty, entitled Formal Investigation into the Circumstances Surrounding the Downing of Iran Air Flight 655 on 3 July 1988 (the "Fogarty report").[6] Only parts of this report have been released (part I in 1988 and part II in 1993). The Fogarty report stated, "The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence information, corroborate the fact that [Iran Air Flight 655] was on a normal commercial air flight plan profile, in the assigned airway, squawking Mode III 6760, on a continuous ascent in altitude from take-off at Bandar Abbas to shoot-down".

The Fogarty report also stated, "Iran must share the responsibility for the tragedy by hazarding one of their civilian airliners by allowing it to fly a relatively low altitude air route in close proximity to hostilities that had been ongoing".[30]

When questioned in a 2000 BBC documentary, the U.S. government stated in a written answer that they believed the incident may have been caused by a simultaneous psychological condition amongst the eighteen bridge crew of Vincennes, called "scenario fulfillment", which is said to occur when persons are under pressure. In such a situation, the men will carry out a training scenario, believing it to be reality while ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario. In the case of this incident, the scenario was an attack by a lone military aircraft.[31]’

lemongrove Sat 11-Jan-20 17:32:32

That’s good GG13??

GrannyGravy13 Sat 11-Jan-20 17:29:53

lemongrove on the BBC news this morning they announced that planes were being diverted from around the area.

lemongrove Sat 11-Jan-20 17:02:53

After all the denial publicly and in the face of the evidence, Iran has confessed to it’s mistake.
I hope airlines will stop flying over Iranian air space just now,
In case of further accidental missiles being loosed!

MerylStreep Sat 11-Jan-20 16:54:27

Thousands on the streets of Iran ( as we speak) chanting
Death to the ayatollah. Another Arab spring?

Jabberwok Sat 11-Jan-20 16:38:08

I think in 1988 the warship did try to identify the Iranian aircraft, by calling the plane but the radio frequency wasn't compatible for whatever reason and the planes transponder wasn't working, so in the absence of any reply a fatal decision was taken. Advances in technology should make this impossible these days particularly so close to a civilian airport where extra vigilance would surely be in place? A rogue element of the Republican Guard maybe?!

GrannyGravy13 Sat 11-Jan-20 15:46:25

Fair point, that’s the one thing that cannot be factored out, human error.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jan-20 15:19:22

So you say - who knows? In a situation of heightened tension and fear, human failings haven’t changed in 32 years.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 11-Jan-20 15:14:10

Yes Suzuewoizie but 32 years on and the advance in technology it must be virtually impossible to mix up planes today.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jan-20 14:27:50

In 1988 the US Navy couldn’t tell the difference between an Iranian passenger plane and a jet fighter and 290 people died

Elegran Sat 11-Jan-20 14:17:04

"By mistake", and they say they will seek out and punish.
Someone was a bit quick on the trigger? Apparently, the mistake was reported well before Iran began denying it ever happened.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 11-Jan-20 13:56:44

Iran has finally admitted to shooting down the passenger airline.

Obviously Iran has had no choice in doing so due to satellite and video footage.

Worrying that it’s defence force cannot tell the difference between a passenger plane and an airforce jet?

Elegran Thu 09-Jan-20 20:15:46

www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/01/08/the-minimal-value-of-trumps-maximum-pressure-on-iran/

rosecarmel Wed 08-Jan-20 22:29:55

He had great difficulty making it through that speech- Sometimes he expresses himself with ease and at other times struggles- He didn't seem prepared and looked like he not only had trouble following the teleprompter but maybe didn't even agree with what he was reading- Whatever the trouble was, he hadn't tweeted much either ..

SirChenjin Wed 08-Jan-20 18:45:03

Yes, despicable - as is insulting those who have served. Remind me what Trump said about John McCain again?

maddyone Wed 08-Jan-20 18:37:24

Same as Clinton then Jura, despicable isn’t it?

jura2 Wed 08-Jan-20 18:09:33

Trump did everything he could to avoid serving - have any of his darling children served in the Army or Navy?