Well done Lawrence Fox!

Spot on jura The director was making a point using artistic licence which is common in films. The basic point is true- Sikhs fought in the British Army. LF in his infinite stupidity was not making that point at all about artistic licence. All this media adulation he’s getting at the moment has gone to his silly little head. He’s too stupid to realise he’s been used and seems to think that whatever comes out of his mouth at the moment is a) true and b) worthy of note. Poor boy

suziewoozie If this isn’t a joke, it will do until a real joe comes along, LF is s joke because he thinks he can categorically stare what is racist or not.

Therefore it naturally follows that you’re also a joke as you think you can state not only what racism is but also what everything else is. Deluded or what?

So it's okay to use artistic licence in a drama and be inaccurate if it meets with your approval suziewoozie? But what if it doesn't? What if there actually were Sikhs in that regiment and he didn't show them because he was using his artistic licence? I don't think you'd be quite so forgiving then.

You didn’t respect my experiences as a deaf person.

I told you that not being able to join in singing was humiliating. You said FFS.

It is humiliating to have to stand at funerals or weddings not joining in. People sometimes wrongly assume you are making some kind of comment on the proceedings. Sometimes that leads to open hostility or comments about you behind your back.

It’s even more humiliating to attempt some kind of sound or lip syncing and have people covering their laughter or, in your case, makes no snide remarks.

It is disabling to not be able to enjoy the kind of social activities that your peer group enjoy. To watch them going off to concerts and gigs. To not be invited.

My experiences are my experiences. They are real to me,. You cannot know to what extent my impairment disables me n everyday life and yet you call me a disgrace for pointing out that it is not a joke.

makes no = making

I’m white, currently in the Caribbean and I have been subjected to racism many many times through the years.
Why would people think that having a pale skin means you don’t understand racism?
Ignorance I suppose.

No Eglantine you’re not being fair. I said it wasn’t disability ie not being able to sing in tune. Of course being hearing impaired is a disability but not singing in tune does not mean per se you have any hearing problems. The other points you make about being excluded because of your disability are absolutely spot on of course. One of the points I made upthread was that more could be done to limit exclusion but ime ( and yours) not all aspects of the able bodied world can be accessible to disabled people. It’s one of the things we have to learn to live with. I’m sorry you experience feelings of humiliation and that people may be laughing/ talking about you behind your back. I do experience frustration - particularly when things could be done to reduce or remove the problem. But life is a constant logistical tussle to balance what’s possible and what I want to do. I also feel sad sometimes at the things I miss out on and remove myself from. I do have very good supportive friends who have often gone further than I ever imagined to make sure I could be included in their plans.

Please do believe me that I’ve only ever said that you really cannot call not being able to sing in tune a disability. Any other hearing impaired aspects to that are a different issue altogether.

Esspee no one is saying that. The criticism of LF’s comments were about his being a white man categorically stating that something that happened to a black person was not racist. If it’s a white person commenting on racism as experienced by white people at the hands of black people and they have experienced it themselves, that’s a completely different issues

He just made himself the epitome of white male privilege

metro.co.uk is reporting that the Fire Service has changed its entrance test so as it's deliberately harder for white men.

Can you imagine the outrage if "white" was changed for "black"?

Surely it should just be a test, not favouring any race?

@suziewoozie
My comment about me being subject to racism should have been directed to trisher who asserted that “he” would never have been subjected to racism.
I have no idea who this thread is about and did not see the programme but I always get irate when people assume racism is always white people’s attitude to other ethnic groups when those of us who have lived in other countries are only too aware that it works both ways.
In the last week I have been subjected to both positive and negative racism which I have called out every single time and have observed African v Indian racism too. It is universal.

Reni Eddo Lodge "Why I don't talk to White People about Race anymore"

The title is off putting and in my view not helpful which is a great shame. The book is very well worth a read if anyone wishes to gain further understanding of what is being referred to when people say that Meghan has suffered Racism or comment on white privilege. The book is challenging but by the end is acknowledging the reasons why white people might express frustration.

Worth a read if you are interested and LF would learn something but suspect he woudn't read it!

GrannyGravy This recruitment process started in September 2017. Why has it only just come to light?

GG it’s the West Midlands Fire and Rescue Service and they introduced a new recruitment system over 2 years ago. Apparently what they wanted to do was increase the number of both women and BME firefighters. It’s a multi stage recruitment process( as you’d expect) and after getting through stage 1 ( reaction tests) the next stage is some reasoning/verbal/ numerical tests iirc. White men have to score 7 and women and BME 6. Then it’s on to the next stage where, like the first stage, it’s all equal again. Seems a bit odd to me. Sexist and racist. Better not tell LF - he might combust.

growstuff I have absolutely no idea at all why it has just become a story ?

With reference to Libby Purves's article in which she suggests that there is now an obsession with racism, which is akin to being the new bigotry.

I see in the I today that she has also said the cost of gender pay disputes at the BBC "chokes creativity". She was referring to Samira Ahmed's successful claim for equal pay, saying she should not necessarily be paid as much as her male colleague. The BBC's argument for paying Jeremy Vine significantly more for doing a very similar job to Ahmed was that he had a "glint in his eye" when presenting. I think that was a feeble defence and so did the tribunal.

Purves states that the compensation awarded to Ahmed is "a lot of money". Yet, it is a lot of money and it could be argued that actors, sports people, broadcasters, entertainers, etc, etc, get too much money. I would probably agree with that. However, that is how capitalism works, and why should certain groups of people be singled out for different working conditions and pay than other people working in the same organisation?

It seems to me that Ms Purves has a bit of a bee in her bonnet about a lot of things.

No idea why it is being reported now, but surely positive discrimination is wrong.

People should have a level playing field regardless of colour or gender?

If I am ever in a position that I need to be rescued by the fire service, the thought furthest from my mind would be race/gender, only that they were capable of doing the job.

Libby Purves would also learn something from the Reni Eddo Lodge book I mentioned up thread!!

Spot on GrannyGravy13 exactly what I was going to say. Any services should recruit according to ability only and if you can't reach the required standard then you don't get in.

A couple of articles I've read today are positioning LF as being far-right, politically . Seems fairly accurate to me. Both of him and his supporters.

If LF is 'far right' then what were Hitler and the Nazis? What a ridiculous thing to say. He may be right wing but very few people are far right except extremists and I'm sure he's not a member of the National Front. People are flinging accusations around like confetti.

You don't have to be a member of the NF to have the same convictions as them and LF's remarks seem remarkably similar to those made by the likes of Nick Griffen of the BNP.

Eglantine I get you

Your post reminded me of what my dear father had endured from childhood until the day he died.

Perhaps you could tell us what remarks to back up your accusation.

As soon as posters evoke Hitler and the Nazis, you know they’ve lost the argument ?