Well done Lawrence Fox!

We don’t use the word ‘whore’ now

3nanny6 I don''t think I have said anywhere that I would use or approve the use of the "n" word. However by not quoting it in an historic context we run the risk of diluting the very real and nasty racism that existed in the past. If someone supported Hitler they would be called a Nazi and we would all know the abhorrent policies they stood for. If someone used the "n" word they equally reveal their opinions for the absolutely unacceptable prejudices they held. We shouldn't perpetuate their attitudes but nor should we cover them up.

Argh! maddyone, typo. Thought I'd proofread it. Not enough it seems. MSM. Main Stream Media.

I don’t excuse racism and never will but I shall never bow down to this twisted, righteous ideology that seeks racism everywhere. It’s Holocaust Memorial Day today and I’m only too aware of racism and hatred. Please don’t preach to me.

Trisher Far too simplistic. The Nazi party was just that- a political party. How do you account for Oskar Schindler risking so much to save Jews when he, himself, was a member of the Nazi party? The N word has connotations of slavery and is used to denigrate. There is no need whatsoever to repeat it.

tickingbird Schindler would have had no option other than to join the Nazi party if he wanted to keep his factory. I'm not debating a single word with anyone who has ilustrated such little understanding of racism. Your prejudiced opinions really don't interest me.

Hear hear trisher

Trisher is so right- read or watch 'the Book Thief' and you will understand that becoming a Nazi party member was not a free choice- at all.

Is it not weird that people will get very offended by the use of one word- but not batter an eyelid about others- and more importantly, actions, be it by individual or groups, or indeed our PM and others in Government?!?

In government and other parties in the house

Thanks Gaga.

trisher - I understood Tickingbird to mean that being a member of the Nazi Party did not automatically mean you were a bad person, as in the case of Schindler. He used his Nazi connections for a worthwhile cause. As per usual you have put your own interpretation on this and wrongly accused her of being ignorant and prejudiced. Just staggering. Watch the Auschwitz memorial if you want to know what racism is, not this faux outrage in your imagination. Still, as you have said you won't be participating in this debate any more then I'll say goodbye.

As a white man how does he feel he is qualified to say what is and what is not racist?

He appears to be sexist and classist also: suggesting that successful working class actors should stop whingeing on behalf of people with a similar background because they've done well for themselves and are therefore "hypocrites; saying that he wouldn't date a woman under 35 because she would automatically be "woke", i.e. interested in social and political issues and willing to speak up for causes she believes in.

If he wishes to make haughty pronouncements, based merely on his own very limited and privileged experience of life, and without regard to research, statistical analyses and historical evidence, then he deserves any flak he gets. He tweeted words to the effect that he views the reaction to his remarks as "a bit of a giggle". Well, it might be a giggle for him but it isn't a giggle for the people who have experienced prejudice and discriminatory practices throughout their lives.

Chestnut The Nazi genocide didn't just happen over night. It started insidiously with certain groups of people being singled out as being damaging to German prosperity and values - Jewish people, black people, gypsies, homosexual, disabled people, people with mental illnesses or chronic health conditions, etc, etc.

Auschwitz didn't just appear overnight- it was the product of the continual reinforcement of a narrative that blamed all the country's ills on these groups of people. Had the population en masse objected to and challenged these prejudices and the discriminatory practices that followed, this genocide could never have happened. It was because people initially rather favoured the toxic idea of "outsiders", whose rights and well being were of no concern to the majority population, that the whole movement flourished.

It is the dismissal of concerns about discriminatory language and behaviour and the enthusiasm for scapegoating/presenting people as lesser, or more troublesome, beings that caused the Nazi genocide (and other genocides too). No doubt, at least initially, many people thought those who expressed disquiet about discriminatory practices were trouble making "do-gooders" who were making a mountain out of a molehill.

Trisher there you go again - I don’t agree with you so I’m a prejudiced bigot. You can’t debate with me, you’ve tried and just keep regurgitating the same old tripe that you have plagiarised from elsewhere. Surely you have realised by now I don’t take you seriously.

Eloethan LF can’t decide what is and isn’t racist as he’s a white man. Seriously?? How many white women on here are doing exactly that? Your lack of awareness is laughable.

I too question why a white man can’t decide what is and isn’t
racist but a white woman can

I've been wandering the exact same thing

Anniebach!

And black men are allowed opinions too, eg Trevor Phillips.

Be very difficult prosecuting someone for being racist, everyone involved must not be a white male.

A very informative post about the Nazis Eloethan although I'm not sure why it's directed at me. I am fully aware of the history and I agree with all you say. Possibly where people disagree is exactly when words or actions are in fact racist or simply interpreted by some as racist when they are not.

tickingbird perhaps when you apologise to me for your remark about double standards and the rest of the accusatory posts you continue to direct at me I would debate but insults seem to be your natural expression. I would far rather use the occassional "fuck" than use personal insults as you seem to do constantly.

No, it wouldn't be difficult Anniebach. People can only be prosecuted for racism which is covered by various laws. The law should prosecute (or not) by using those laws, whether or not lay people might interpret something as racist.

What Fox has said might be considered racist by some people, but AFAIK he hasn't broken any laws. If he were to target an individual with racially loaded language, he could possibly be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred. I'm not sure what the legal definition of racial hatred is, but the law should use that definition in an objective way. It shouldn't matter about the ethnicity of the prosecutors.

Even Sophie Scholl, who was executed for distributing anti-war propaganda, had been a member of the Nazi League of German Girls. Her brother, who was also executed, was a member of the Hitler Youth. Initially, both organisations and the Nazi Party offered something positive to people who felt disillusioned with the German state. Anybody working in public services, including teachers, had to join the Nazi Party if they wanted to keep their job.

The Nazi Party was always much more than just a political party. It was a movement, which sought (and partially succeeded) in changing people's mindsets. By the time people realised what was going on, it was too late. The Nazis were in power and ruled by terror.

Unlike Communism, Nazism never used revolutionary means. It didn't have to have an army and defeat the German people by force. It took over internally with the indifferent consent of the people. It threw out the rule book on what was accepted as common decency and liberalism. Certain groups, such as the unemployed and socialists, were demonised, so people (das Volk) were happy to see them sent off to labour camps and prisons.

It really isn't that difficult to see parallels with 1932 Germany and the kind of mentality which is sweeping much of Europe today, including the UK.

I’m not sure I fully agree with your last sentence growstuff, though I think there are elements of fact in it. ‘Sweeping Europe’ is the bit I have some difficulty with, though it is true that there is evidence of some of a similar mentality in some countries.

However, you have given an excellent précis of the situation in Germany under the Nazis. I believe it was very difficult for ordinary people to voice their own opinions. But there was resistance, think about Col Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, who tried to assassinate Hitler. I came across his execution site accidentally when in Berlin with my husband a couple of years ago. There was a picture display and narrative there, it was interesting although this event was not news to me, I knew about him before.

The UK I think is seriously at risk if Brexit results in a real economic slump. A German friend whose mother was a member of the Nazi party and a Hitler supporter told me what worried her mother most was a return to the starvation after WW1. Hitler promised economic security and stability at first. Left wing socialists, Jews and others were seen as a block to this so it was OK to remove them. It's so easy to blame things on one group of people and use them as scapegoats.

I agree it was a bit of a hyperbole and, in fact, we're beginning to see the retreat of populism in some countries. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that there's a rise in xenophobia and blaming minorities, "elites", big organisations, liberalism (you name it) for problems. The Nazis exploited people's fears and that is exactly what is happening today - even in the UK.