Sajid now says 'no alignment post Brexit' ...

With regard to the chlorinated chicken

There's a lot of hysterical hyperbole and it appears unfounded

This from an article by the BBC

It's not consuming chlorine itself that the EU is worried about - in fact in 2005 the European Food Safety Authority said that "exposure to chlorite residues arising from treated poultry carcasses would be of no safety concern". Chlorine-rinsed bagged salads are common in the UK and other countries in the EU.

But the EU believes that relying on a chlorine rinse at the end of the meat production process could be a way of compensating for poor hygiene standards - such as dirty or crowded abattoirs.

So the chlorine itself isn't actually seen as a problem.

To me, sovereignty means having independent power within our own Parliament, the one which we elect. Keeping our own currency, though, is not a symbol of independence, it is a tool of economic policy. A single currency imposes one exchange rate on all which may not suit all regions, especially if they are very different economies in a large geographical area.

The Labour government at the time the euro began did not join but it said joining was right in principle, when the time is right. The Lib Dems wanted us to join immediately and, as ever, the Conservatives were split. Had we voted to remain, I don't doubt that we would have joined at some point, as Heseltine and Major have said and Blair implied.

Replying to Maisie, I don't know who constantly says all Leavers knew exactly what they were voting for. I suspect many Leavers and Remainers were struggling with the choice. In the end, we could only try to assess the future under either scenario and cast our vote accordingly. There is no certainty either way.

Er, I think you'll find MaizieD if you look back at this thread, that I was quoting jura2 - it was she who said the only member allowed.

But you repeated what she said, Opal and cited it as a reason for your Leave vote. Had you been as knowledgeable as Leavers claim to be you would have known that it was wrong, not agreed with it.

'Allowing' never came into it. The UK chose not to participate in the euro and Schengen. Which they had every right and entitlement to do, being a free and sovereign member of the EU. (Who helped to write the rules....)

^ Had we voted to remain, I don't doubt that we would have joined at some point, as Heseltine and Major have said and Blair implied.^

Cameron obtained a permanent opt out from the euro, to be written into the treaties. Why would we have opted in at 'some point' after that? Your assertion makes no sense, Cunco

Cunco It is certain "leavers" themselves who claim they knew exactly what they were voting for!! Unfortunately, they do seem to find it very difficult to articulate, which is incredibly frustrating to those who still think it was the wrong decision. Ah well! At least they own it now - no excuses.

No, it doesn't make sense. It's "Project Fear".

Oh FFS MaizieD, I copied and pasted Jura2's post, to highlight the word allowed, so don't tell me what I do and don't know.

Speaks volumes that you don't respond to my point that a Remain voter seems to be ignorant of the facts, though. No surprise there.

You agreed with her, Opal.

I don't know who constantly says all Leavers knew exactly what they were voting for.

Oh just look at loads of threads on here, Cunco. Leavers said it all the time.

It's good to hear there will be a market for chlorinated chicken Oopsminty. Personally, I'll be giving it a miss. As I virtually never eat food in a restaurant or from takeaways, it won't be difficult for me to avoid.

No Maizie I didn't agree, I was highlighting the word allowed. Now, are you going to comment about a Remainer being ignorant of the facts?

We were given assurances about sovereignty in 1975 which were discarded as Parliament progressively committed us to the EU. Assurances about our joining the euro could equally have been discarded. Treaties are not forever, even if Cameron had done what Maisie says.

If one believes in the EU Project, it makes sense that the UK would ultimately be fully engaged, including part of the monetary union. If economic and political policies are being determined and operated centrally, you need to be at its core to have the influence the likes of Heseltine, Major and Blair see as imperative. Otherwise, the UK would always have been semi-detached.

I personally would not say that I know why everyone voted either way. I know they voted for very different reasons, some better than others; but I do know why I voted. It took some hard thought. Not rocking the boat would have been an easier option but it would have denied my opinion, formed in 1975 and tested over 40 years.

So the chlorine itself isn't actually seen as a problem.

Which is precisely what I said in my post, prior to yours, Oops.
But chlorine washing does not completely destroy the toxic bacteria.

Interesting that you ignore the comparison of US food poisoning incidence per capita with the UK incidence. 1 in 6, US as opposed to 1 in 60 UK.

Tourists tuck into USA chicken quite happily when on their holidays in Florida.
☀️

My cousin, before he retired, was at the top of a UK car manfacturing company and he lobbied hard for Remain, because the car manufacturing business runs on Just In Time (JIT) principles: a lot of parts for the cars come from other countries, many of them in the EU, and because they are ordered to arrive at the assembly plant within a very short time before they are needed, the car company saves a lot of money; for example not having to pay for storage. If the lorries carrying the parts are held up in Customs, this can really mess up production - widget #1 isn't available on time so you can't install widget #2 which depends on #1 being installed first, and so on. The lorry carrying widget #1 might be held in a queue behind a lorry of fish which hasn’t got its correct paperwork. Workers have to wait for the parts to arrive and are, presumably, being paid while they are waiting. I believe that we also send smaller car parts to specialist assemblers in other EU countries, who then send them back to the UK to go into the car. So there could be delays in both directions. It's my understanding that the modern British car industry is more or less based on JIT. (And by the way, in relation to fishing which we get very excited abotu, it turns out that the fish that we catch in ‘our’ waters is not the fish that we want to eat - it goes straight to the EU; while the cod and haddock we want to eat comes from outside out waters!)
And then, on top of all this, there's the separate issue of tariffs on all these parts going in both directions between the UK and the EU. Pity the poor Irish: apparently the ingredients for Baileys cross the Irish border about eight times before a bottle of Baileys is made. Tony Connelly of RTE TV in Ireland has written an excellent and very readable book about this and the other very real effects of Brexit on the Irish on both sides of the border in his book "Brexit and Ireland" - you can get it at Amazon.

Cunco - Denmark has kept its own currency, it's a strong country and is not planning to join the Euro, and is not being pressurised to join AFAIK.

I didn't read your post Maizie

Wasn't interested really

Tourists are more than welcome to risk food poisoning, Ug, if they so wish. I don't see why we should deliberately import the high risk.

Well, you read that one, didn't you, Oops?

Did you take note of the food poisoning statistics?

I still don’t think 1:6 people returning from Florida or NYC come home clutching their guts with tales of spoiled vacations.

And actually when I think about it further, if USA chicken is sold in our supermarkets we aren’t compelled to buy it!

Exactly Ug, if shoppers don't want it, then they won't buy it.

I've been to the USA multiple times with family and friends over the last 30 years, eaten chicken, and not one of us has ever had food poisoning. Can say the same for my wider circle too. Surely, if the statistics were 1:6 people, then at least one of us would have had it? Yet more anti-Brexit scaremongering, methinks?

We have absolutely no idea how many of the 1,000s of Brits who visit the US each year have a nice little bout of food poisoning included as part of their holiday package. Nobody keeps any data on it.

We do know what the US statistics say and they're not pretty. Why import that risk? One of the bacteria which evades chlorine washing is camphylobacter. It's very, very nasty, much worse than salmonella.

if USA chicken is sold in our supermarkets we aren’t compelled to buy it!

This has been discussed at length before on here. You must have missed it. 'Choice' is a privilege of the well off. US chicken will be cheap. Who has to buy cheap food?

And what are the guarantees that its origin will be clearly marked on the label? Particularly if it's in processed foods; pies, ready meals etc?

You can have a mild form of food poisoning and recover without treatment. There is therefore no way of knowing exactly how many people are affected. Cases that don't present at surgeries/hospitals just don't feature in the statistics. Presumably those of you who believe it is just Brexit scaremongering would be perfectly happy to eat it and feed it to your family, including children.

I can only comment on my own experiences when in the USA, which is entirely positive. I'll make up my mind on whether I wish to eat chlorinated chicken when and if it becomes available in the UK and based on guidelines and information available at the time. Anything else IS just scaremongering.