Prince Andrew warned not to go to the US because he could be arrested. (Yahoo article)

Please could someone explain the difference between "heard in the pub = public outrage " but relaying information gleaned from a newspaper about H & M = gossip that should be ignored?

Elegran A century and a half ago, it was 13. A journalist staged and wrote up an event where he bought (yes, bought) a girl of just turned 13 from her parents, with no questions asked about what he planned to do with her, so as to highlight that 13 was too young to decide for herself
And do you not realise that Epstein was doing much the same thing for rich men? With the advantage that he could fly them on a private jet to a private island where there was no escape. And PA had a friendship with this man.

Chewbacca you have to pay for the newspaper!!???

Yes, very shoddy. He is a spoilt brat with younger-son syndrome - as the brother of the Prince of Wales he has the money and the profile of a member of the royal family, but without any sense of the responsibilities that go with that position. He is very conscious of the kowtowing that he feels is due to him, but not of the duties and the good behaviour that should go with high rank. He thinks he can do what ever he wants without explaining and that no-one should ask him to give an account of himself. I suspect that he is about to learn the hard way that no-one is above the law.

Must proof read - hearsay?. But you probably guessed that eazybee?

Good posts Elegran.

Yes, I realise it, but I have said nowhere that the victim was wicked or "asking for it" or that Andrew has a shining halo and isn't a randy and unprincipled git. I have never argued about the immorality or the inhumanity of what Epstein did, nor do I think that even though he was involved with Epstein, Andrew is definitely innocent of any involvement in it - I believe there is a definite possibility that he was involved, and he certainly behaves like someone with something to hide, but it is up to the authorities to find the evidence and prove it. However, the girl who has been most vocal was not underage, so in UK law was capable of choosing. My comment was mostly against using the word "paedophile" as though the man had been convicted in a court of law of abusing pre-teens or young teens and possessing indecent images.

The girl in William Stead's articles "The Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon:" was 13 and (at that time) legally old enough to choose (thoughin reality she had no idea of what could have awaited her) Do you think the age of consent should be raised from 16 to some higher age? 18? 21? That would criminalise almost all of our young people. Should sex be illegal between ALL people with more that ten years between their ages?

Apparently the FBI have a department in the U.K. so surely he could be interviewed here. I hope he is squirming with all this negative attention but he is such a slime ball that I expect even now he thinks he can do just as he likes with no consequence. And perhaps he can but it makes me think that maybe he knows more than he admitted to in the interview. The fact that he has daughters makes this all the more difficult to understand prince Andrews behaviour. Those poor abused girls, will they ever get justice ?

Elegran: I suspect that he is about to learn the hard way that no-one is above the law.

I would like to think you were right. But I doubt it. He will be protected. Nothing will come of it .

Good rational post Elegran ,that being said PA is a complete odious fool.

All those men, all those girls and only one man named !

Good posts Elegran. And yes, lots of powerful men involved with Epstein so we need the pond emptied and the sludge drained. Get those girls talking and naming names.

I agree Chestnut but only one man has been named , !

Tricia posted
"Surely anyone who has been in contact with Epstein and was not involved in trafficking and paedophilia would want to be questioned and would want to tell the FBI everything they had seen or heard. In fact if we apply higher standards of behaviour to the RF shouldn't he be even more anxious to help? Shouldn't he be on the next plane to the US and present himself?"

I think this too. Surely a member of the Royal Family should be the first to set an example of good behaviour and not wait until other men have been named before being as helpful as he can.

PA isn't the only man named, he is the only man featured in British papers. From the Miami Herald
The names of some prominent men Giuffre says she was directed to have sex with are spattered throughout the approximately 2,000 pages released Friday.

Besides Mitchell, they include: the late scientist Marvin Minsky, modeling scout Jean-Luc Brunel, former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, 71, Hyatt hotels magnate Tom Pritzker, 69, and prominent hedge fund manager Glenn Dubin, 62. Giuffre has previously identified Epstein’s lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, 80, and Prince Andrew, 59, as two of the people with whom she had sex.

All the men have issued denials, with some, including Dershowitz, insisting they never met Giuffre. No charges have been filed against anyone other than Epstein, who was indicted last month in New York on two counts of sex trafficking.
Read more here: www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article233704797.html#storylink=cpy
Epstein also gave Trump and Clinton lifts and entertained them on his island although no one has made allegations about having sex with them.

Good posts Elegran. Your point about age differences between consenting sexual partners is well made. It's complicated in so many ways.
One example is the way police/social work teams /CPS reach decisions about prosecution in cases of so called under age sex. The girl is often 13, she's in a committed relationship with her boyfriend who may be 16 or 17. The parents of the girl insist the boy should be prosecuted. The weeping girl says no, she doesn't want him prosecuted, she loves him. The boys parents say they warned him but these two believe they're in love and will be together for ever.
What's the point of prosecuting a boy in those circumstances? He becomes a schedule 1 offender - significant impact on his life.

If the boyfriend was 20-22 a different view may be taken but in the absence of a willing complainant is prosecution the right way forward.

Making it illegal to have sex with someone ten years younger, as Elegran queries - well Woody Allen would have been prosecuted, so would Mdme Macron.

The issue is simple, if young people have been groomed, trafficked, sexually exploited, the people making money from it should be prosecuted.

trisher, thanks for the list, which confirms PA isn't the only man being named.

Good posts Elegran. And yes, lots of powerful men involved with Epstein so we need the pond emptied and the sludge drained. Get those girls talking and naming names.

You have to show the girls that they will be taken seriously and the rich men wont be above the law before expecting more to come forward

Why should they share a traumatic intimate personal experience if nothing is going to come of it justice wise?

Yes as trisher says, some girls were recruited at 14, including the one pictured with Andrew; some girls allegedly abused by Epstein were younger still.

If Epstein confided in his close friend Andrew, he may be able to help with the enquiries, eg who recruited the girls and the methods used and what was going on at the various residences, including the names of other men involved.

If all is innocent and above board then there is nothing to fear.

Otherwise this will forever be seen as a similar type of cover-up by powerful men such as happened in the Profumo affair.

The U S Attorney only named Andrew publicly .

An age-old problem that can cut in either direction. For a powerless young woman, speaking truth to power is a dangerous option if she is not going to be believed, and at the other end of the scale a threat of an accusation of rape against an innocent man can blackmail him into paying up to protect his name.

Annibach Do you think that your last post means that Prince Andrew has no duty to tell what he knows or doesn't know?
Why should he not co operate and show a good example?

I Don’t know. I don’t see it as black and white as you do
Ilovecheese.

Would he get a fair trial in Trump's America?

Why on earth are people on here defending a man who stayed in a paedophiles home multiple times ..is there any reason why he shouldn't give a witness statement ? If your daughter was one of those groomed would you be happy for him to refuse to tell waht he knows.Beggars belief !

I don’t think so Jane10, he has been found guilty on this forum .

Now all women are victims and if a man is wealthy and of a certain age he is guilty.

Trump, Clinton, Gore have been named as associates of
Epstein, all cleared.

Epstein’s death is suspicious. We don’t know who and from which countries may be involved.

Why were enquiries not made when Epstein was found guilty.

All too murky.