How will we measure the success of Brexit?

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Perhaps Joelsnan doesn’t take GGM3 seriously.......I know that I don’t.?

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Glad you said that, not me, Elegran.

Farm shops are great! but how many of them are needed to feed the whole country? How many farms to supply the farm shops? It was estimated decades ago that the Uk could not produce enough to feed the population, and there are far more people now than there were then.

Food will still be imported, however many of us buy at farm shops,, and it is inevitable that the further it travels, the higher the cost, and the more environmental pollution will be generated.

They voted leave with the long term future of the country in mind rather than their own personal situation.

All very well, Chestnut, but we still haven't been told how Brexit is going to achieve a good long term future for the country.

My response to you, sarahellen is the same as mine to Joelsnan earlier. I've spent nearly 4 years posting on this. No more. I'm going to focus on what actually happens.

Urmstongran
I have a farm shop in my area who due to trade increase has now made it possible for them to offer a delivery service. I predict this is just the start.Large oaks from little acorns etc ?

growstuff: Populism can occur across the political spectrum, but is generally right-wing because people vote in their own interests, or that of a very small group. They have little interest in the wider society, in which they live.
You apply this description to leavers but I'd say the opposite is true.
From posts on these forums it seems to me that it's the remainers who are more concerned about their own interests or that of a very small group. We've had endless wailing about how they think they will be personally affected by Brexit. So it seems they voted remain to protect themselves.
It's the leavers who cared more about their wider society. They voted leave with the long term future of the country in mind rather than their own personal situation.

MaisieD
In view of your doom and gloom prediction re Brexit and without putting on too much pressure please give not just myself, no doubt other leavers, your picture of a future UK out of the EU.

You are right of course MaizieD we don’t all have access to farm shops (I don’t usually). But for those who can, they are wonderful!

Plus no silly plastic packaging and air miles.

But other Leavers want air miles..

We're back to this ridiculous stuff about buying from local producers again (sorry, MOnica, I usually have great respect for your posts). How many farm shops are available to the people who live in vast conurbations and can't afford to travel to the countryside to buy their Sunday joint or organic veg?

Farm shops are brilliant! I went to one in Yorkshire recently. I wish it was near to where I live. It would be my first port of call for meat, cheeses, pies etc. I was amazed at the choice and top quality. Plus no silly plastic packaging and air miles.

Negitiations may mean that meat does not have country of origin on it, but there is nothing to stop people going out and buying there meat from British farmer producers.

For those of us living in rural areas, no matter how suburban, there will be local farm shops and for city dwellers there is the internet or any of the big markets with a food reputation, Borough market in London and a couple of years ago I remember being blown away by the superb range of food, including butchers in Bolton market in Lancashire. Farmer's markets can be another source for buying specifically British produced meat and other goods.

GGMk3
^ You are announcing ever little new job creation as if they never happened in the past. Just how big is the increase in what we would have had if we hadn't been leaving the EU? Surely those are the figures you should be telling us about.^

But, but...I thought companies would all flee UK post Brexit.

And conversely to your argument...How many more jobs would we have lost to Eastern Europe had we stayed in the EU?

GGMk3
Leavers on here are not offering "change" but regression back to the days of Empire and when everyone had all they needed, no one was homeless or in poverty and all was right with the world because England ruled the waves (this is basically an English "Brexit").

Do you charge for your mind reading talent? You appear know what all leavers want...where did you learn this apparently fantastic skill? I really would love to learn.

AROUND 1,300 jobs are set to be created in South Yorkshire.

You are announcing ever little new job creation as if they never happened in the past. Just how big is the increase in what we would have had if we hadn't been leaving the EU? Surely those are the figures you should be telling us about.

Exactly DoraMarr.

Apparently, 800 jobs in shifts will be created at the hub by 2022. It will certainly be some consolation for the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost high street retail jobs in the last few years.

www.thestar.co.uk/business/hermes-build-largest-warehouse-europe-south-yorkshire-creating-1300-new-jobs-1383168

PS. This would have happened without Brexit.

The news that Hermes is building a new hub in Barnsley looks good on the surface, but I wonder what those 1,300 jobs will be? If they are zero hours and basic wage jobs, that is not going to produce the kind of economic growth we need. Low wages equal low taxes and low spending power. Plus, the Christmas trading results show that online shopping has reduced footfall in city centre shops and cut revenues, resulting in reduced hours and job losses. We have already seen some high street names shut down as a result.

I don't think you understand Wadesnan. You are also being extremely insulting. Caged animals have no cognisance of what is to come. An intelligent, enquiring human being can do.

Leavers on here are not offering "change" but regression back to the days of Empire and when everyone had all they needed, no one was homeless or in poverty and all was right with the world because England ruled the waves (this is basically an English "Brexit").

We can at least ignore the above nonsense when we see it on here but we are now being told it will be a "no-deal" with a new and fluffy name "an Australian style deal". If you think you and yours will thrive I am sure you can think of arguments like comparing those, who are in favour of an ever-changing and progressive Europian Union, who want to stay in a close relationship with nearest neighbours to caged animals.

More positive news. What kind of jobs are going to be created? Presumably, the hub itself will be robotised.

AROUND 1,300 jobs are set to be created in South Yorkshire.
Hermes, the consumer delivery specialist, is to build a state-of-the-art automated parcel distribution hub located in Barnsley.

Due for completion in 2022, the £60 million development will be the largest of its kind in Europe and will create around 1,300 jobs in the area.

Yorkshire Post again
(Waiting in for an Amazon parcel is proving interesting).

Exactly Elegran. Food products manufactured in the UK don't have to state the country of origin of the ingredients anyway. It's the EU which has insisted that raw products are labelled with country of origin.

Populism is a disputed term, but all forms of it put the "people" at the heart of ideology. The most significant historical example is probably Nazism, which is why the word "Volk" (people) appeared in nearly all Hitler's speeches. The Volkswagen was originally introduced to appeal to the people and make them think they had some control.

The appeal to people who think they are ignored by the so-called élites is obvious. Some countries, such as Singapore, have no truck with populism. It's a democracy, but in the end people have to obey the government and don't have much say. It claims to be meritocratic, which means the top jobs are done by those best suited to them. Other democracies, such as Pakistan, have problems because the majority of people are poorly educated. When they vote, they don't see a bigger picture and tend to vote on religious lines.

There are real dangers with populism because popular policies aren't necessarily the best for a country as a whole in the long term. Disadvantaged minorities aren't protected and the people in power aren't necessarily the best suited for the job. The Greeks called this situation kakistocracy.

Populism can occur across the political spectrum, but is generally right-wing because people vote in their own interests, or that of a very small group. They have little interest in the wider society, in which they live.