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How will we measure the success of Brexit?

(237 Posts)
vegansrock Fri 31-Jan-20 16:29:02

Well we won’t know the terms of Brexit for another year, but I’m wondering how the marvellous benefits will be measured, and if they don’t happen will people ever accept that it wasn’t a good idea? Based on the promises that were made I can offer the following we should look for as a measure of success:
1. No border in the Irish Sea and no breaking of the GFA
2. £350 m a week for the NHS and the 40 new hospitals, thousands of new nurses
3. We should have parity in the number or quality of trade deals we manage to negotiate plus they should not be fewer or worse than the ones we have already with the EU.
If the above do not happen will anyone admit we have been lied to? Or will they just say it takes time - if so, how long do we have to wait for any benefits?

yggdrasil Fri 31-Jan-20 17:07:19

It seems the message is already going round that it is all the Remainers fault when it all goes pearshape.

eazybee Fri 31-Jan-20 17:21:07

I would suggest ask this question in ten years time.

Urmstongran Fri 31-Jan-20 17:26:37

Perhaps when those who didn’t vote for it are happy?

Craicon Fri 31-Jan-20 17:43:16

I think the unexpected ‘success’ of Brexit will be the reunification of Ireland and Scotland becoming independent of the Union.
Bring it on!

vegansrock Fri 31-Jan-20 18:07:55

We will be happy when the promises are kept. Until then we will be holding the government's feet to the fire. Not holding my breath.

Opal Fri 31-Jan-20 18:10:00

I really hope over the next few years, when it becomes clear that our economy is thriving and we are out-performing our EU neighbours, that all of those who voted remain have the guts to admit they were wrong. Or will they just fade into the background, whilst still taking advantage of the benefits that Brexit will bring to us all? Probably the latter ......

Smileless2012 Fri 31-Jan-20 18:13:55

I agree eazybee.

vegansrock Fri 31-Jan-20 18:16:17

If the benefits come and we get all that which we are promised great - I'll be saying it was a good deal - but if these don't materialise - will leavers admit they were wrong - or will they just blame the EU for not bending over for Boris/remainers for not believing enough / give it another 10 years etc?

MaizieD Fri 31-Jan-20 18:21:22

when it becomes clear that our economy is thriving and we are out-performing our EU neighbours

But no-one can foretell the future, Opal..

Though perhaps you'd like to tell us all why our economy is going to thrive.

Perhaps some of you Leavers would like to tell us why we're going to have to wait 10 years to see 'possible' benefits when we were told during the referendum campaign that the benefits would be immediate. Or are you all busy rewriting history to deny what was said in 2016? Like the government Brexiters who've been busy deleting their tweets now that they need to renege on pre ref. promises...

Opal Fri 31-Jan-20 21:11:02

But no-one can foretell the future - Exactly MaizieD, so why do all the remainers predict that Brexit is going to be a bloody disaster? Works both ways ......

SirChenjin Fri 31-Jan-20 21:19:21

When I see that £350 million a week coming into my organisation - then I’ll know that they meant every word that was written on that bus and I’ll start to believe the rest of their claims.

Nezumi65 Fri 31-Jan-20 21:30:48

It’s not even just about avoiding economic disaster.

When people stop feeling it’s okay to be openly racist in public? That seems to have rocketed since Brexit.

When we’re two years post Brexit & my son’s epilepsy meds have been available without issue.

When my children can easily work in whatever EU country they like (actually they can get Irish passports if they choose so hopefully won’t lose that, so will extend that wish to their friends)

When friends spouses have been granted settled status (some are struggling with that - despite being half British & here for more than 40 years hmm )

When we refuse to accept chlorinated chicken (& the increased food poisoning that goes with it).

When Northern Ireland doesn’t erupt in flames.

Good luck to Scotland - I would rather they stayed but they certainly have a strong case for a second Indy ref now.

MaizieD Fri 31-Jan-20 21:57:36

There are far more valid reasons why Brexit is going to be a bloody disaster than there are reasons why it isn't. Opal.

Opal Fri 31-Jan-20 22:09:26

Didn't think you could foretell the future MaizieD?

Joelsnan Fri 31-Jan-20 22:10:25

The only way Brexit can be shown to succeed or fail is for every person in the UK (Leavers, Remainers and abstainers), to try their hardest to make this new status work. Then and only then if it does fail can Remainers claim success.
Otherwise if Remain voters continue to try and sabotage any success they will rightly be blamed for the failure and future generation will suffer and never forgive.

Hetty58 Fri 31-Jan-20 22:11:22

Can anyone explain why some people seem to have a 'bee in their bonnet' about chlorinated chicken? Anyone? It must be the tabloids influence, I suppose, as there's no logic to it.

Do these same people reject any UK/EU washed veg, fruit or salad, any pre-packed food too? It's all 'contaminated ' with chlorine from our water supplies, you know. I suggest they read this:

www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2019/05/15/Imported-chicken-fears-are-wrong-says-former-food-safety-boss

Joelsnan Fri 31-Jan-20 22:15:47

Hetty58
Lots of ‘Chicken Lickens’ here

M0nica Fri 31-Jan-20 22:19:01

I will judge the success of Brexit by how quickly we rejoin the EU.

growstuff Fri 31-Jan-20 22:23:43

It's not the chlorine Hetty. It's the fact it's used in an attempt to cover up the bad conditions in which the chickens are kept.

MaizieD Fri 31-Jan-20 22:25:14

Hetty58

For the n millionth time.

IT'S NOT THE CHLORINE THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

It's the nasties that the the US chickens harbour, because of the incredibly dirty and crowded conditions under which they are raised, which chlorine washing does not totally eliminate (many survive in encysted form, I understand) and which cause 1 in 6 US citizens every year to have a nice bout of food poisoning. As opposed to 1 in 60 UK citizens, who eat chickens reared and processed to much higher (EU) standards of hygiene and space allocation.

Goodness knows, people in the UK protest about the conditions under which our poultry is raised; I'm astounded that this nation of supposed animal lovers seem willing to stomach US chicken with no qualms whatsoever.

I'd also point out that the US intends to insist that we have their dirty chickens and that we are not allowed to label their place of origin when they are retailed. We'll be so bloody desperate for a trade deal that we'll go along with that...

growstuff Fri 31-Jan-20 22:26:15

Which successes do you think those who voted to remain will attempt to sabotage and how?

If there really are any "successes", nobody's going to try and sabotage them, but it depends what you consider a success.

What exactly is it hoped to achieve?

growstuff Fri 31-Jan-20 22:27:56

Not only that Maizie. UK poultry farmers will have to lower their own standards to compete or go out of business.

vegansrock Sat 01-Feb-20 03:43:56

If there are job losses, companies relocating, higher prices, poorer living standards, lower growth will Brexitlovers admit its a failure? No - they’ll blame remainers for not trying hard enough to make it a success.

Nezumi65 Sat 01-Feb-20 07:17:10

It’s not actually about the chlorine - that’s shorthand for US food production. The additional cases of food poisoning are a real worry. However, in my opinion an even bigger concern is the use of large amounts of antibiotics in US farming. This is a problem for driving antibiotic resistance. We’re going to leave our grandchildren/great-grandchildren with limited antibiotics (& antibiotic resistance is something that has concerned me for years, long before Brexit - my middle son had his first antibiotic at 18 - we have always been very careful to only use them when necessary).

The good news I guess is that if they do force us to import that crap I will switch to largely vegetarian with some meat from somewhere like Farm Wilder which I can trace back to the individual farm.

Anyway importing meat full or hormones and antibiotics that causes much higher numbers of food poisoning cases doesn’t seem a positive step forwards to me.