Happy Day After Independance Day!

Absolutely I extend that to left wing parties - why would I not? This thread is not about left wing antI Semitic behaviour though - your continuous whataboutery is really interesting.

Don’t even go there with your ‘Nazi salutes aren’t illegal’ under the guise of free speech. Dear god.

Have we really reached the stage where we are going to defend the right of people to give Nazi salutes?

If this is the future of Brexit Britain god help us all.

Have we really reached the stage where we are going to defend the right of people to give Nazi salutes?

I didt say I defended them. Infact I said entirely the opposite but it remains a fact that such salutes are not illegal in this country.

So your point is? What exactly? That therefore they’re acceptable? I disagree.

And tbh if you start Nazi saluting your way around the place you may find that you are charged with a hate crime. If not a crime it will certainly be logged as a hate incident.

And if you train your dog to Nazi salute then expect a fine www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43864133

Tommy Robinson was outside court bleating about freedom of speech.

Nezumi65 - I believe in freedom of speech. I do not agree with you on many things you have said here, but I will defend your right to say them. I doubt you would do the same for me though. Therein lies the difference between us.

Exactly Nezumi65 - and rather than defending anyone’s right to throw a few Nazi salutes I’m more inclined to say that they should be illegal and hope that the right wing party in charge at the moment look to move this hate crime to the statute books ASAP in light of the rise in hate crimes - because I certainly wouldn’t want any cause I’d voted for to be aligned with that behaviour and certainly wouldn’t be following a statement I’d made about fake news with a defence of the right of people to do them under the guise of free speech.

I will never defend people’s right to spread hate speech. And there are laws against hate crimes now. One of my sons is learning disabled so particularly at risk of being targeted by hate crime and hate speech. If you want to defend that as free speech then shame on you.

I have no objection to free speech that is not hate speech. A Nazi salute is a hateful act. Would you defend someone’s right to make it outside a Jewish school? Because that’s what you seem to be saying.

Joelnan, the EU has a very high standard when it comes to meds. Go to any Asian country and you will find that the majority of people will only take or accept meds that come from the EU. China is mistrusted because of fakes etc. The US will hike the price up and so cost the NHS more, but no worries Boris will be pouring money into it. Also you cannot swap brands with epilepsy type meds without a great deal of risk and if it is done it has to be done very gradually over a large period of time which can take up to a year or more.

Dear God!

We have a poster defending Nazi salutes on the dubious grounds of 'free speech' and then indulging in a bit of whataboutery about leftwing anti-semitism.

No connection at all between Nazi salutes and anti-semitism, of course..

Well, well well, I thought this thread wouldn’t prove popular, but how wrong I was?It’s especially popular with Remainers!
Amazing.

Nezumi65 - I have already told you that I know you wont agree. You have said everything I would expect.

The thing is there is evil in this world. In order to understand good we have to see evil. If you supress evil you will not be able tomeasure what is good because you have nothing to measure it against. That is why I defend freedom of speech.

Only by hearing words which are not good can you understand the enormity of them. Only by seeing things that are evil and hateful can you fully appreciate why they are unacceptable. If you close down free speech you close down the measure that allows us all to make discernments about ideas and behaviour and that eventually actually enables those ideas to germinate and grow.

You need to hear things to hear how bad they are. Shutting down speech will not stop people having thoughts but if you allow others to hear those thoughts and ideas you have some sort of censor put on the worst of them. That I believe is important.

When we call hate crime and other words we need to be sure of what we are doing. Of course I would not allow someone to make a Nazi salute outside a Jewish school without commenting on it negatively.

However, our hate crime laws seem to have been used rather too successfully by those who would hide their own evil acts and words by ensuring we cannot have the freedom to speak against them.

Tell those young girls in Rotherham, Keighly , Telford, Oxford and a number of other places that the law did not work against them because the Police and others in charge were afraid to speak out and call out the real crimes for fear of accusations of hate crimes being levelled at them.

Sometimes ( often) the only thing we have to do for evil to flurish is to supress anything that might be said against it.

aprilrose - you haven’t answered - are you defending the right of someone to stand outside a Jewish school and make a Nazi salute.

And actually you have missed my point. If someone stood outside a Jewish school and made a Nazi salute they would be charged with a hate crime. It would be an offence. If I saw it I would report it to the police & they would deal with it. Likewise a Nazi salute made in the direction of my learning disabled son. I actually have the name of the person I need to contact in our local force should someone direct hate speech at my son. They take it seriously.

If you argue it is a right then you are aligning yourself with the likes of Nazis such as Yaxley-Lennon - not a good look tbh.

Stop fighting amongst yourselves.

For those that need some education on global medicine exports - www.worldstopexports.com/drugs-medicine-exports-country/

We are ballywell awash with medicines.

Hop over to an appropriate echo chamber, and let us celebrate without your crazy hopes for imminent disaster.

Nezumi - read it again , I did answer. To cut and paste:

Of course I would not allow someone to make a Nazi salute outside a Jewish school without commenting on it negatively

Stirring again ananimous? The epilepsy meds/cancer isotopes etc issues are easy enough to understand.

And no I will not accept that a Nazi salute is something to be protected under free speech. It is quite the most shocking thing I have read for a long time.

I saw that - and as I said you missed the point. A Nazi salute outside a Jewish school is a police matter.

You are defending the right of people to make Nazi salutes even if you don’t like them. You are using the same argument as known now-Nazis.

*neo

You are defending the right of people to make Nazi salutes even if you don’t like them

No, I thought I made that clear.

Nez
You are rambling, accusatory nonsense now

I think you will find the UK has a major pharmacuetical industry. I worked in it once many years ago.

I doubt those bleating had noticed but there are constant shortages of medicines whilst we have been in the EU . I am not saying thats because of the EU but it isnt logical to claim that leaving the EU will make things worse.

You stated they are not illegal (they usually are tbh) and that they are part of free speech. Then went on about how important free speech is.

That is defending the right of people to make Nazi salutes.

That’s exactly what you’re saying aprilrose “Whilst I am not in any way condoning Nazi salutes, lets remember they are not illegal in this country. That maybe is the price of freedom and freedom of speech ( Those fredoms of people to say what they believe I am willing to defend with my life even if I do not agree with what is being said.)” Or - ‘I might not like them but they’re not illegal so y’know, free speech and all’

I’m not ‘bleating’ aprilrose - I am concerned about the risk of seizures in the case of an interruption in supply - a particular risk in a no deal scenario.