Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

When Starmer talks of other things ( not politics) he comes to life, smiling and even a bit twinkly, it’s a shame he can’t inject a bit of that into his ‘politicking’.However people are as they are, and TMay was incapable of doing that too.
I think he will be boringly forensic at PMQ’s, but that has to be better than JC’s angry rants.Johnson, not a natural when being heckled/questioned soon loses his ‘flow’ but can be quick witted and amusing to make up for it.Johnson will have to be more au fait with precise figures to be successful in the chamber ( as TMay was, in fact, precise figures and attention-to detail were her strong points.)
It does look as if Starmer will now become the Leader. Certainly the best choice in my view.

growstuff Yes, I did get your super forecaster reference but Blair is more of an operator than a prophet. I see, even before Labour or Lib Dems have selected their new leaders, Blair is suggesting a pact to promote common interests. I imagine the EU is high on his list. Lib Dem hopeful Layla Moran thinks he is right but, as far as I am aware, Labour leadership candidates have continued to distance themselves from the suggestion or the former Labour Prime Minister.

The Liberal Democrat leadership will not be decided until July so it's all talk for now.

MaizieD Fri 21-Feb-20 16:07:36

'it comes from the Labour Candidates themselves.

'Only from two of them.'
--

Well at least you comprehend there is a truth behind the story.

There are only 3 candidates left for Leader and 6 for Deputy Leader.

Rebecca Long Bailey says she would welcome Corbyn into her Cabinet as far as I know Starmer and Nandy have neither said yes or no. So that 's 1.

Angela Raynor totally backs Rebecca Long Bailey so she could be 2

Richard Burgon would welcome Corbyn into the Cabinet and has on questioning been asked as to which role and he suggested maybe' Foreign Secretary ' so that makes 3

Dawn Butler is never far from Corbyn side and she is a staunch ally of Corbyn so I think she 'could ' make it 4

Ian Murray, Not remotely likely

Kalid Mahmood, Total outsider doesn't really matter.

Rosena Allin Khan, an unknown but she did say :-

' We need to move beyond the last few years where nasty internal debates about faction and ideological purity have too often alienated people outside our movement.' so no 5, probably not but who knows.

Corbyn stating ' he would consider it' however would depend on who was leader and if that turns out to be Long Bailey/Burgon then it is not beyond a possibility.

Somebody once described Long-Bailey as looking and sounding like a mid-ranking council official you've just had an argument with and she does.

Nandy comes across as vice-chair of the debating society at the University of Wigan - occasional passion, but you don't really feel there's much behind it.

Starmer, far from perfect. He needs to chuck in a few jokes and loosen up, and losing the tie in the C4 leaders' debate recently was probably a step in the right direction. But he is by far the best candidate of those still on the ballot paper, in my opinion.

Somebody once described Long-Bailey as looking and sounding like a mid-ranking council official you've just had an argument with and she does

She also has another job working in the cafe at our local Sainsburys.
Her or her twin siser.

Which of the manifesto promises would you like to see dropped Urmstongran?

F

Corbyn was kryptonite to the electorate. Many of the policies, e.g. nationalising rail, have majority support in opinion polls. Labour needs a leader and top team that can sell sell sell the Labour brand to the public and build trust after years of taking the blame for the state of the economy and everything else.

It’s amazing that after a decade of Tory ineptitude (well Osborne & Cameron’s stupid austerity measures that have left us where we are now) voters still think they’re better with the economy. Obviously we didn’t trust the alternative!

Sorry Ilovecheese (I do too!) I didn’t respond earlier. I’ve been having a think (whilst putting some make up on to go out in an hour!).

- The 4 day week.

- Set up public inquiries into blacklisting and Orgreave. For goodness sake, why not one into the Charge of the Light Brigade while we are at it?

- Abolish zero-hour contracts. Only 2.8% of workers in ‘zero hours Britain’ are employed on zero hours contracts, and of these only a third want to work extra hours, according to the ONS. Eliminating this form of work would not just drive up costs for business, it would hurt people who appreciate flexible working arrangements and the freedom to work only when they want to.

- The threat to produce generic versions of drugs unless pharmaceutical companies agree to sell them at ‘fair’ prices. Labour also says it wants to increase the number of pharmaceutical jobs in Britain – but how, given that it is threatening to undermine the industry’s ability to earn back the billions it costs to develop new drugs?

Off to put my mascara and lipstick on ?

For those that believe that the Parliamentary Labour Party will or can return to the years of Blair, Brown and Miliband, think again. The Trade unions have funded and given enormous other support to the Parliamentary party for well over one hundred years and never has that support been greater than in the last two decades.

In the above, what have those often low paid trade union organised workers who gave all that funding and support witnessed within the Parliamentary Party in those last two decades? First and foremost a party that in more than twelve years of government gave them absolutely nothing. Then we all witnessed a party striven with internal division due to a sector that would not accept the democratic election of a leader. In the undermining action that was continually carried by that sector, the requirements of those that were at the core of the Labour movement in the country seemed to matter little.

The above now has brought the respect held by way of the grassroots activist outside the Parliamentary Labour party to a very low level, and in that, there is very strong opinion within those activists to "pull the plug" on what is the political wing of the TUC.

All three candidates for the Labour leadership have in the last few days emphasised their commitment to upholding the policies brought forward during the Corbyn period of leadership. That newfound commitment in two of the candidates is I feel recognition of how serious the situation is in the relationship between the Parliamentary Party and the wider Labour movement.

Therefore to have Corbyn or McDonald in the shadow cabinet may be the only way in the short to medium term to placate the grassroots membership of the movement and in that way maintain the support that has been so generously forthcoming for so very many years.

So, there will be no return to the Blair era that some on this thread undoubtedly wish to see, for any move to bring that about from within the Parliamentary Labour Party would ensure it is cast adrift by way of all others in the Labour movement. That would ensure the Parliamentary Labour Party would travel in the same direction as the "gang of four", the Alliance Party, the LibDems and many others who thought that a centre left party could exist outside of the Labour movement.

I apologies to POGS in stating in an earlier post that I felt that the rumours of Jeremy Corbyn being included in a future shadow cabinet were "mischief-making", as it seems that today those reports have much substance and reasoning in them.

So, again apologies POGS.

Grandad

Names and numbers hey.

It was Ed Miliband not Corbyn you thought was ' mischief making'.

However both could be in the Shadow Cabinet, not implausible.

Do you remember Corbyn touted Ed Mibands name as a potential Shadow Cabinet Minister back in 2016. Also Ed Miliband was thought to have been in with a shout after Clive Lewis left the Shadow Cabinet but Rebecca Long Bailey got the job.

Nowt so weird as People and Politics. As an old manager of mine once said ' If you sit in that chair long enough you will see things go full circle'.

A party that gave them nothing
National minimum wage
Free nursery places for 3 and 4 year olds
Reduced homelessness by over 70 %
Autism act
Established low pay commission
Record numbers of support staff in schools
Sure start
Scrapped section 28
Reduced NHS waiting lists to lowest levels
Reduced long term unemployment by a ridiculous amount
Civil partnerships
Free eye tests for over 60's
I could go on and on.
Do I think the labour party will go back to the blair era. No. I dont think going back is ever a good idea. I think some people who complain about Blair were exactly the people who didnt need a labour government, whose lives weren't affected one iota by the era they complain about.

Sadiq Khan has said he will not be voting for Long Bailey
he said the party needs a leader who understands why it lost
the 2019 election

I think you are assigning too much significance to the 'grass roots activists, Grandad. I doubt that they are such an overwhelming proportion of the 'ordinary' membership that they will carry the day. 60% of the CLPs endorsing Starmer doesn't sound like a yearning for the 'continuity candidate' to me.

Starmer has said right from the very start that he doesn't want a return to the 'Blairite' party. Did you not pick that up?

Agree Galaxy but grandad43 has said often the Blair / Brown governments did give the unions anything !

It will be interesting who the Party Members elect leader but I am surprised that there is talk of Corbyn as a cabinet member.
He has been a useless indecisive leader, yesterday’s failure, other that a sop to the extreme left a waste of space.

Bloody hell I could cheerfully throttle Blair for some of the things he did but the utter unwillingness to see anything beyond the mantra of blair is bad, tories are evil, is such a dead end.

MaizieD, in regard to your post @20:47 today, the activists I referred to in my earlier posts are those which sit on the national executives of the major unions, sit on the Regional and District committees of the same, trade sector group groups of Unite and are shop floor union representatives in many companies.

The above may or may not be the majority in this leadership election, but they will certainly be the Labour members who will decide if the support and continuing relationship by the trade union movement of the Parliamentary Labour Party is to continue into the future?

Galaxy, in regard to your post @20:44 today, just to take one item from your list, Blair did bring in the minimum wage regulations during the years of his administration. However, he then allowed any poor employer to circumnavigate those regulations by allowing Zero Hours contracts and, even worse, Gig economy employment to flourish.

That has drastically effected low skilled working people and their families right up to the present time.

It is only through the actions of the trade unions through the courts that Gig Economy employment is being cut back. Throughout that court action, the Parliamentary Labour party (riven with its internal divisions) offered no support whatsoever. Only Corbyn, McDonald and a few more on the left of the Parliamentary Labour Party individually spoke up in support of the trade union action.

Totally Disgusting.

It was the Unions who kept Lord Robens in his job

Totally Disgusting.

The minimum wage was labour party policy since Keir hardie, blair was the only labour leader to actually introduce it because he was the only one who gained power. It is very easy to say it should have been more, or it should have been done this way. The gig economy in particular is a complex issue and cant all be laid at the feet of Blair. In the sector I work in, mostly women, low paid and often part time, the national minimum wage has improved their lives. As did nursery provision and sure start. There is no such list for corbyn because he hasn't been able to gain power. I agree with much.of current labour party policy but it was very clear in 2017 that corbyn was never going to win an election, to continue onwards was a selfish act.

We need a candidate to bring the party together, although I am beginning to believe that may be an impossible task. As much as you may hate it grandad you need the blairites and the tories to vote for you. The party not you personally! How do you think that is going to be achieved?

Galaxy, in all honesty, I do not believe that the Parliamentary Labour Party can be brought together. I sincerely hope I am wrong in that belief, but I fear not.

There are other options for the broader Labour movement in the country, and this year could see the opening up and a wide discussion on those options I feel.

Much will depend on how the new leader of the Labour Party acts on taking office.

Do you want electoral success for the labour party? Thats a serious question, I am not being antagonistic, I dont get a sense of that from the left of the party, and I worry the country sensed that too.
It's something about ambition, I think, Johnson has somehow harnessed that. It wasnt just about Brexit that election victory.

Galaxy, the one thing that the Labour Party can be assured of, is that it will not achieve any meaningful electoral success for at least the next four years.

Therefore, what I and many others wish to see, I believe, is a Parliamentary Labour Party unified around a core set of policies. Those policies should be no more than commitments to a strong left-wing stance on security of employment, education, housing and health.

Outside the above, the party should avoid formulating policies on minority issues or those affecting minority groups in our society for that always gives a hostile media a weapon to use against the Party.

Over the next two to three years the electorate will come to judge whether Brexit has been a success or a failure, and It is then that the Parliamentary Labour Party along with the Broader movement can formulate more extensive policies in the light of the situation in the country.

Until that time, what is required is all in the Parliamentary Labour Party to be united around its leadership and the above core policies.

If that cannot be achieved within Labours parliamentary ranks, then the broader Labour movement should undoubtedly consign the Parliamentary Party to the bin, and take up other options, I believe.

So there can never be a united Labour Party, if we have
The Parliamentary Labour Party and the broader labour movement.