Diane Abbott quits the shadow cabinet.

trisher

' But you really should learn to draw a distinction between examining motives and suggesting reasons and holding those views yourself. In fact the less you examine and the more you state constantly that there isn't racism and you aren't racist the more likely you are to be unconsciously racist.'
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I do not have to learn anything because my views are NOT motivated by the colour of an MP' s skin, you however do and attribute the same to others.

You can bugger off to the moon with your comment ' and the more you state constantly that there isn't racism and you aren't racist the more likely you are to be unconsciously racist.'

As I said previously on various threads certain posters are throwing around accusations of posters being equivalent to Nazis or racist because they intentionally go out of their way to twist, misrepresent posts and think they can do so because it must be the case ' because they say so.'

And so it goes on and on and on. ?

trisher

'POGS It isn't racist to consider why someone else behaves as they do'
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Precisely! If I consider or anybody else considers why Dianne Abbott or any other politician behaves it is not racist!

It would be if the colour of the skin of said politician was of concern or interest for making considered opinions of said MP then racism may be a possibility.

If you are making that comment towards me personally, intimating once AGAIN I am racist, then that is not evident in my posts and consider away because it is in your head that I am racist.

We should agree to disagree, and try to get along, or just ignore each other...

Who are you referring to specifically Gaga?

* Disgraceful behaviour on this thread by people who are racist.*

Can you direct me to some of this disgraceful, racist behaviour on this thread please Gagajo?

Quite a lot of people on here AREN'T racists actually. To be honest, on this WHOLE site (rather than just on the contentious threads) I would say there are less racists than those that ARE.

However, there are an entrenched minority that are not just ignorant (because that implies they don't know better) but that are willfully so.

The secular religion of 'Social Justice' and its radical adherents can be just as fanatical, unforgiving and aggressive as religious fundamentalists.

So true. Social justice warriors who are determined to find racism where none exists are creating so much division and it’s all coming from middle class, white liberals. This from a black man. There are some fanatics on here and it’s quite fascinating to read how entrenched they are in their assertion that we’re all racists.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Disgraceful behaviour on this thread from people obsessed.

“It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.”
― W.C. Fields

And youre still missing the point! You're justifiably outraged at the racial abuse that has been directed at Diane Abbott over her political career. But you will not acknowledge that Priti Patel has been subjected to the very same racial abuse; in the media and right here on GN. Holding her name up for ridicule is just one example. But you gloss over it and resort to whataboutery because she's not a political figure that you happen to support.

And yes trisher, I did mean exactly that in my earlier post.

ananimous and if you don't look it may still be there just unacknowledged.
Gagajo Well done that girl. I must say I was surprised about how the Hijab sisters spoke about the abuse they received and how they wore it because they chose to.

trisher, 10 years ago I was working in a regular British state school in Northumberland. I had ONE Muslim student in my class (11 years old) who made the choice NOT to wear any kind of head covering.

When it was time for the class to do speaking presentations, she was nearly the last. She did a talk about her sister who had decided she would wear a headscarf. She described the abuse that her sister had hurled at her on a daily basis, JUST because she wore a headscarf. She described how they couldn't even walk down to the local shop without abuse.

The rest of the class were regular white British kids. Usual variety of attitudes, from not bothered/accepting, down to downright racist.

When the Muslim girl stopped speaking, without exception, the whole class applauded. I was at the back of the room (had to go there to hide because her descriptions were bringing tears to my eyes) and was full on weeping at the classes applause.

A pity some on here weren't a bit more able to empathise with the difficult racist experiences that some others have, instead of trying to blame those who point unacceptable attitudes out.

I've still got her book with her speech written in it. She's grown up and at university now. Still not wearing a headscarf. Her choice.

What you look for, you will usually find.

There are none so blind as them that will not see.

Chewbacca are you trying to say I should look at my own opinions? If not why not say so? I do try to. I also try to listen to others who have more experience. For example I used to quite disapprove of the hijab but I listened to two Muslim women who perform as The Hijab Sisters and I realised that for some women it is empowering. It's only when we keep insisting we are not and cannot possibly be racist that we slip into becoming so.

Oh yes indeed Gaga. Some of the worst offenders I have found are trades people who casually assume I will share their ghastly views. One guy told me indignantly he had been asked to remove his shoes before working in a house. He put this down to the fact that they are Muslamics and was clearly waiting for me to tut and join in. He must have been gutted when I ended the exchange.

And lets face it, there is a LOT of racism on this forum and there are almost certainly racist Private Messages shooting back and forth between some members. Pity GNHQ don't monitor those too.

Greymar, I couldn't agree more! It isn't until you've lived it that you understand. So non-white family members coming home and relating the discrimination they face, the hardships put in their way. SEEING people treat them differently. I've even had white people make racist comments, thinking as an older, white woman that I'm sure to share their point of view, not knowing my family background.

I think if you are White British and " older" you will be unconsciously racist.

The best we can do is to be open minded and thoughtful and have empathy for our fellow human beings.

But you really should learn to draw a distinction between examining motives and suggesting reasons and holding those views yourself. In fact the less you examine and the more you state constantly that there isn't racism and you aren't racist the more likely you are to be unconsciously racist.

Right back at ya trisher.

POGS It isn't racist to consider why someone else behaves as they do. It is simply the result of having an enquiring mind. Of course if you simply go around saying "I'm not racist" "That's not racist" then you will not understand examining everyone's motives carefully (and yes, I do examine my own. I have considered very carefully my views on Priti Patel and if it is racist to make jokes about her name)
As for the idea you suggested about the Labour leadership I do think there will be many MPs swallowing down mysogynistic feelings and voting for a woman because they think the LP should keep up with the Tories.
But you really should learn to draw a distinction between examining motives and suggesting reasons and holding those views yourself. In fact the less you examine and the more you state constantly that there isn't racism and you aren't racist the more likely you are to be unconsciously racist.

trisher

'And do you never ever worry that your views are influenced by the racism that surrounds you? And having a black or Asian friend doesn't stop you being racist.'
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No I do not worry my views are influenced by the racism that surrounds me because I am not a racist, do not hold racist opinions.
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' And I will say Priti Patel has done well to be made Home Secretary but if I were her I would always be wondering if my appointment was in some way the Conservatives showing Labour "Anything you can do" and if DA going will mean she gets shuffled out?'

Well trisher going by your twisted logic what would you say if Rebecca Long Bailey or Lisa Nandy became Prime Minister at the next election and somebody said:-

And I will say Rebecca Long Bailey/Lisa Nandy has done well to be made Prime Minister but if I were her I would always be wondering if my appointment was in some way the Labour Party showing the Conservative Party "Anything you can do". and if Boris Johnsons going will mean she gets shuffled out because she was only kept in to show after 2 Conservative Female Prime Ministers we just wanted to show we can do it to.

And you use the word ' misogyny' to attack others.

A "weak pun" trisher? But this whole discussion revolves around how women, and particularly women of colour, are discussed and portrayed by us and the media. It's generally acknowledged that making reference to any aspect that marks those women as "other", such as their appearance, their colour or anything that confirms their ethnicity, is to be condemned. That's because it's racist. And it's still racist whether it's Priti Patel or Diane Abbott. The only difference is that one is in the Labour Party and the other is a Tory.

It's double standards trisher.

You’d say it was racism Trisher.