Boris Johnson to reject EU’s human rights laws after Brexit (warning - copied and pasted!)

In that case POGS the government should make its position crystal clear. Unfortunately, I don't believe a word that comes out of Johnson's mouth. The other point is that abandoning the ECHR has long been on the Conservative agenda. It's not totally hypothetical or out of the blue.

I am extremely concerned that the agenda seems to be to throw numerous ideas at the public. Some of them are complete nonsense, but others have a more serious, dangerous intent. People will get so weary of it all, that it wouldn't be that difficult to slip abolishing the HRA and abandoning the ECHR through the net. Leaving it until it happens would be too late.

MaizieD Thu 05-Mar-20 07:47:44

'I have read Boris Johnson is preparing to reject the EU 'demand ' that the UK will continue to be bound by the ECHR once the country becomes fully independent.

Thinking about this overnight, POGS and I find it puzzling. Are you sure it was the ECHR? Not the ECJ? Do you have a reference for this?'
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I am perfectly capable of understanding both the history of and functions of both the ECHR and the ECJ, Thank you. I have not mentioned the ECJ if you read my posts so once again your post is irrelevant if it follows what I post.

I as an individual accept the UK has left the EU and we are now what is known as a ' third country ' when it comes to Trade Talks etc. I believe it is not acceptable for the EU for Trade purposes to single out the UK from other ' third countries' such as Canada, Japan etc. by demanding what its sovereign policies should be to trade. That is where I agree with the UK government on that point.

I find it is misrepresenting what is happening if it is intimated /stated that the UK government is leaving the ECHR.

If and when the UK government ever states the UK is leaving the ECHR or abandoning the UK's Human Rights Act 1988 then I will give my opinion at that point not whilst it purely ''hypothetical'.

MaizieD Wed 04-Mar-20 23:47:58

'I think you're just buying in to the 'bullying EU' narrative, POGS. Which is just what Johnson wants.'
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Here we go again. NOPE!

I am giving another opinion/view that does not comply with 'your ' opinion/view which leads you to assume I am incapable of holding/making assessments as I see/read them.

And no 'whataboutery'

OK, got it, thanks growstuff.

The EU’s opening position suggests it would automatically end all ‘law enforcement co-operation and judicial co-operation in criminal matters’ if the UK ‘denounces’ the ECHR.

Hasn't the UK in the past refused to extradite people to countries where there are human rights violations? (That's when we were a civilised country, of course) Isn't this a similar stance, but in anticipation rather than in actuality?

It worries me very much, too.

I think that 'human rights' is so associated in people's minds with 'letting off criminals' that they are quite unaware of the protections the legislation offers them. Just as the law should apply equally to all citizens, however 'bad', human rights are the rights of all, with no exceptions.

PS. The title of the article is, of course, misleading because the ECHR isn't the EU's human rights laws.

I think it is the ECHR Maizie.

metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/boris-johnson-reject-eus-human-rights-laws-brexit-12329467/

Quite honestly, I'm more concerned by this in the long-term, and what's motivating it, than leaving the single market.

I have read Boris Johnson is preparing to reject the EU 'demand ' that the UK will continue to be bound by the ECHR once the country becomes fully independent.

Thinking about this overnight, POGS and I find it puzzling. Are you sure it was the ECHR? Not the ECJ? Do you have a reference for this?

The country has always been fully independent. Just wait until we're on our knees begging for trade deals. Then we'll see how 'independent' we are...

Sadly, I think a lot of voters (and maybe not just leave voters) are totally unconcerned about human rights. The day may come when many people start to regret that lack of concern.

I think you're just buying in to the 'bullying EU' narrative, POGS. Which is just what Johnson wants.

There's no earthly reason why the UK shouldn't remain signed up to the ECHR. Unless the government wants to amend the UK HRA. Which they do, it was in their manifesto. Which is not a promising development. It's a retrograde step dressed up as a populist strategy. (And it was in 2010, before you start)

I believe that it is part of his (or Cummings') plan to create outrage and chaos.

He must be aware of the effect of what he has said. If people are misinterpreting it, why doesn't he explain his motivation and intentions transparently?

Has Boris Johnson said the UK is leaving the ECHR or scrapping the UK's Human Rights Act :-??

The Human Rights Act 1998 (c42) is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom which received Royal Assent on 9 November 1998, and mostly came into force on 2 October 2000.[1] Its aim was to incorporate into UK law the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. The Act makes a remedy for breach of a Convention right available in UK courts, without the need to go to the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) in Strasbourg.'
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I have read Boris Johnson is preparing to reject the EU 'demand ' that the UK will continue to be bound by the ECHR once the country becomes fully independent.

That is not the same as the UK government leaving the ECHR.

I view it more as the UK Government saying it will not be told what it can and cannot do by the European Union by putting forward proposed clauses in a post-Brexit trade agreement that would require the UK to remain signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR).

But how many people realised that the ECHR isn't anything to do with the EU? It's all European innit, so must be wrong.

I think Cummings has a point. People didn't vote to leave because they thought the country would thrive. They voted for some nebulous concepts of sovereignty and independence.

There are going to be an awful lot of disappointed people, when they find out that immigration laws are unworkable and the country is going to have to accept European standards on many issues.

Cummings was one of the main players in selling the lies, so he's going to have to set his spin machine to overdrive.

Sorry. Last sentence '..pretend that it does.'

Dominic Cummings is on record as saying he wants to abandon the ECHR because he claims most people who voted to leave the EU thought they were going to leave the ECHR anyway and will be angry when they find out that they haven't. It seems he's right.

I didn't see anything on the ballot paper about leaving the ECHR. It asked if we should leave the EU or remain in it.

Cummings is making an entirely spurious argument for pursuing his own agenda. He has sufficient contempt for 'ordinary' people to not give a flying wotsit about what they think or want. He knows perfectly well that a nation shouldn't be dictated to by its more stupid members, but it's convenient for him to pretend that he does.

Pressure to leave the ECHR predates the referendum, which is why the UK government introduced the HRA.

It's looking increasingly that abandoning universal human rights, which are seen as an element of liberalism, was the main motivator behind the Leave vote, which some people have been claiming all along.

This is a culture war.

Dominic Cummings is on record as saying he wants to abandon the ECHR because he claims most people who voted to leave the EU thought they were going to leave the ECHR anyway and will be angry when they find out that they haven't. It seems he's right.

The ECHR was proposed by Churchill and drafted by British Lawyers and approved by the Council of Europe in 1953. In came into effect 40 years before the Treaty of Maastricht. So denouncing it as part of Brexit is load of old rubbish and it is British history not European legislation. You have voted for Brexit on a pack of lies that most of you believed without first doing your research.

I don't think you're going to get any answers, growstuff

So which human rights laws and rules would you like to change grannypiper?

Careful, Maizie, you must not suggest that some Leave voters didn't know exactly what they voted for.

P.S. I don't for one minute believe that the tories want to change the UK Human Rights Act in order to strengthen our human rights protection. Anyone who does believe that (though from the comments about it on here I don't think they do believe that) is hopelessly naive.

We left Europe so we could make our own rules and laws.

The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU. It is an institution set up after WWII with an objective of preventing the abuse of human rights by regimes such as that of the Nazis. Britain took a key role in framing the European Charter for Human Rights, with the Court as an instrument to ensure that such rights are maintained.

It is a measure of the ignorance confusion of Leave voters that they are associating it with the EU. We have left the EU, not every single institution with 'Europe' in its title.

I really cannot see any valid argument for rejecting the ECHR. Humans are humans the world over; their 'rights' do not alter with their nationality. Taking human rights away from sections of the population are part of the descent into fascism.

I cant find the part that says he UK will abolish all Human Rights. We will have our own HR legislation and rightly so. We left Europe so we could make our own rules and laws.