Italy

We really should and make the necessary changes to safeguard everyone.

So lovely to read everyone's thoughts. A good site for seeing how the virus is spreading is Worldometer.

I haven't read all the comments on this thread so apologies if this has already been put out. I think the Italians are being truthful about their corona virus statistics and China just isn't. How can the size of a country like Italy surpass the no. of those who have died in China? Just doesn't make sense. China have many more dead they are just not admitting it.

Erm, I think I just said that

That was to Seefah, I really must learn to do reply

Another way of looking at it is the proportion of confirmed cases per head of population.
From what I've found numbers 2019-2020
China pop 1,396, 164,036
Cases 80,867
Italy pop 60,550,092
Cases 41,035
OTOH India pop 1,139,494,175
Cases 223
So it looks like differences between countries are a lot to do with efficiency in testing and recording, very difficult to do in massive countries with high poverty levels such as India and China.

I will save my comment until I’ve read this thread through. However I’m probably safe in repeating that one of the reasons for the grim figures coming out of Italy is that the country has THE most elderly population anywhere in the whole of Europe.

If you do have some time on your hands to read all of this article which a worried American friend sent on to me via friends in lockdown in Switzerland:

medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

It answers a lot of questions, I think.

I have a friend in Australia whose Chinese wife was in China visiting family when the virus first raised its ugly head. He keeps in touch with her daily by Skype (or similar). She was scared to go out because ‘snatch squads’ were grabbing people off the street and throwing them into the back of vans if there was the slightest s suspicion that they might have been in contact with the virus. Those same vans were being used to transport bodies!

Whilst I would be the first to decry those here who do not think it necessary to protect themselves or others, at least we have not got to that stage or (I hope) are unlikely to. Let us hope people use their common sense and remember their fellow citizens when they think about going out and about spreading the virus.

The Italians have said all along that they didn't lock down fast enough and kept warning us not to make the same mistake, but the government did not listen. Now we are following their trajectory and, as we don't seem to be going into lock down, it may be worse.

We should also remember that a large proportion of the people now being hospitalised are in the 20-50 age group, so having an elderly population or grandparents living with families may make a difference (perhaps) to the mortality rate but not to the numbers of those getting seriously ill.

In my relatives village in Lombardy, very rural, a 45 year old man died two days ago- he had a mild infection but then a sudden breathing crisis which killed him before the overstretched ambulance got to him. His elderly parents are now testing positive. There can be no wake or funeral. The death rate is 10x higher in their local hospital ( much better resourced than ours) than would normally be expected.The growth in the U.K. may be slower, but we are all just as liable to get the virus as any Italian or Chinese person. My local hospital here is already saying it can take no more emergencies.

I live in the Lazio region and I can assure you it is very real and very frightening! We went food shopping this morning and had to queue before entering the supermarket. Everyone is wearing masks and adhering to the meter apart policy. No kissing or hand shaking now. Please take care everybody.

Shortlegs Did you mean 45 gms of pasta? When we have pasta for the 2 of us I cook 100 gms dry weight which means your stash would last us for 225 days!

Italy has so many smokers too probably more so in the older population which can’t help. Whenever we’ve been there it seemed everyone smokes. SiL (78) has lived in Genoa since 1968 (widowed, lung cancer!) - we are keeping in touch daily. Her daughter does live nearby.

dublingran It would be interesting to see a further breakdown of the 25-54 age group. I think that's the group that is most likely to continue going to pubs and restaurants.

nonnasusie Where are you in Lazio?

A doctor on Italian tv this morning was saying how it is now suspected that the virus entered the country way back (before Corona was known about). It was probably brought in by somebody in Northern Italy coming from China.

Many GPs, looking back on their medical records have recorded an abnormal number of cases which were diagnosed as pneumonia at the time.

TLVgran You are correct in your statement about the causes of death. My mother had Alzheimers but the death certificate stated pneumonia as the primary cause because that was her final illness.

GoldenAge I just tol my OH about cold drinks. He likes cold beer from the fridge even in winter. e checked it out and apparently it's fake news. The WHO has not recommended drinking warm water rather than cold. Nor has it said we shouldn't eat ice cream.

Here in France Parisians are now called Parigo. Many of them have fled to their second homes or to familyaway from the large cities. There are banners at Arcachon (a favourtie place for Parisians for holidays) which say Parigo Home.

This is copied from a FB post on the Mad Diet this morning. Because the lady is being censored she has mis-spelled some of the article to fool the techno-bots. Eg: vac seen for vaccine and in floo ensa for the flu. It explains about Italy and why it's so badly hit. Hope you can decipher it. Suzanne is a very knowledgeable lady and I love her posts.....

STORY TIME

Is it time we looked at how this sordid tale is playing out in other countries? There is a stark difference in approach between East and West but most of us are none the wiser to preventative measures being applied elsewhere.

As Bojo and the Supremes pick from the arch, square, or round window other nations have ditched the storybook fed to them by (the band with Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend). The leader of that organisation has been involved in more cover-ups than the woodchip in my office so some health agencies are doing their own thing – using a mix of TCM, herbal medicine, and micronutrients combined with Western medicine.

Just take a look at the numbers in China, Thailand, Korea, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and other nations using TCM, herbal, and micronutrients as preventative measures and then compare that data to badly hit countries in Europe. Health leaders in certain states have drawn from ancient wisdom and combined it with modern science to help battle this bug.

We are ter ror ised by what is going on in Italy but the media fails to mention this country has a long history of serious outbreaks. The Italians first named in floo en za in 1357 – in floo en za di freddo meaning “cold influence” – and they have suffered more than other nations for centuries. Look at the B floo vy ruses that circulated in Lombardia in 2015-2016. Some scientists speculate the prevalence of these strains was driven by the trivalent vak seen administered to locals. We must also consider the ageing population in Italy, the fact they smoke way more than we do, and what about the efficacy of beer bug tests?

Testing differs greatly from country to country and many scientists are warning about the level of accuracy. In Italy health agencies are using surface protein diagnostic tests which look for the presence of vy ral genes in the nose or throat swab of patients. But this type of test can throw up false positives and false negatives (as beer bugs – including the common cold - share several similarities) and that’s why researchers are questioning the numbers. The Americans are issuing a new PCR test fast-tracked by Roche. It looks at the genomic data inside the vy rus – extracting RNA, amplifying it, and looking for markers associated with the bug. But this approach is costly and takes time. I don’t often stick up for Boris but he is correct to wait for the new anti body test for folk in the UK. It will provide greater granularity helping the NHS to more accurately identify and map the progress of the disease in Britain.

So that’s my wee Friday update. If this post gets past the bots please share with friends and family. Try not to panic about what is going on in Italy and Spain as their back story is different to ours. Be patient and wait for a more accurate test as there is no point further muddying the waters. And consider the preventative measures being applied in other states so we can take pressure off the NHS.

Love, Suzanne.xxx

Flygirl Nice one!

Italy has one of the oldest populations in the EU, and a strong tradition of keeping in daily contact with elderly relatives. They also have quite crowded accommodation in their towns so people cannot avoid each other easily, their whole ethos is on being close contact communities. I have also read that preliminary analysis of data seems to indicate that people with 'O' blood groups seem to have more resistance to the illness than the other blood groups - Italy has 41.5% O group so, if this analysis is true, then Italians generally are more at risk (other blood groups provide extra protection for other things, for instance A group blood seems to carry extra resistance to Cholera whilst O groups are less protected) so it could be an unfortunate combination of all these things.

Stay home, everyone..People in italy are dying from what they did 2 to 3 weeks ago. I live in Northern Italy and the old there are super stubborn and don't like learning new things about viruses. Trust me, I would know.

People don't like modifying their behaviour. Please stay out of people's faces. Keep your distance. Wash your hands. Limit contact.

The Italians underestimated this. It's too late for the UK but if you cut your socialising, you might not get it.

I'm in Canada and we shut schools and restaurants and venues but not the shopping malls...who knows if we'll be okay.

Fly girl - what's TCM having a blank moment. I do think other countries use of herbal medicines will help in some way to prevent serious medical conditions.

Although looking at the stats on corona on worldometers I was v surprised about Switzerland, I just presumed with all those mountains and clean air they would be healthy folk who could shake it off.

Please don't believe all this "Italians are so different" nonsense. Where my relatives live is rural, there are large farmhouses and detached houses which have courtyards with gardens. They aren't living on top of each other. it is a fairly affluent area ( as is much of Northern Italy), the health services are excellent, yes people are sociable, they meet outside for coffee etc., but that is much the same in the UK for people going to crowded pubs and restaurants. There are far fewer smokers than in the past. Yet this region has the highest incidence with so many deaths. The British aren't immune to this virus as some on here are trying to imply. Please heed the warnings

GoldenAge I just tol my OH about cold drinks. He likes cold beer from the fridge even in winter. e checked it out and apparently it's fake news. The WHO has not recommended drinking warm water rather than cold. Nor has it said we shouldn't eat ice cream.

Dinahmo It was reported on the lunch-time news that the man, Peter, who first spread this on the internet has now removed it because it has been found to be a false claim, totally untrue. It is also apparently untrue that a temperature of 26c will kill the virus, as he posted at first.
There is much fake news and it is wise to be wary of anything that does not come from official sources.

@Brendawymms I also heard the same, obviously don't know for sure. Apparently there is a high percentage of Chinese working for the textile industries, they went home for Chinese New Year, then returned to Italy.