Italy

Its not showing properly on my android phone Sandelf

Have you tried phoning her Kwest?

Don't know why it's so bad in Italy but it is truly dire and not just old people dying. My sister-in-law and husband live near Pisa. She retired last year but has had to complete a form just to take the dog for a walk. Everything is closed apart from food shops. We have been over there for years and it is their custom to greet you by kissing on both cheeks. Also families of different generations live together or very nearby as it is their tradition to keep close and look after each other as the State did not help them as much as in the UK. (don't know about now). I think western democracies allow people a lot of freedom and choice, which is great in normal times, but in the present situation a lot of people don't like being told what to do and what not to do e.g. in London people are still going out to clubs and restaurants. China was drastic in their lockdown and people obeyed.
I sincerely hope it doesn't get as bad as Italy over here.

I'm thinking of Greece, lots of physical contact, heavy smokers, family events, very close proximity in the cities.

Maremia we were watching that and thought exactly the same!

Sally if you look at NotSpaghetti's link you will see that Italy is second in the world of number of cases so far.

The chart updates so is useful

Yes its ridiculous how some just dont seem to be bothered at all about spreading anything Rachand,but please be wary,if you do develop anything after that shop incident,that bloke could have just a dry throat,(or could unknowingly have covid19!)If rigorous compulsory testing of everone doesn't come into play this virus could go on for years,killing people!

Thank you Shortlegs and your 45kgs of pasta, it gave me a MUCH NEEDED LAUGH, IN FACT I'M STILL LAUGHING.

Next weekend a cruise ship is due to dock in Venice. On board are hundreds of elderly Australians ( I gave a wry smile at this point ) when it was suggested by a few that they were being sent there to die.

Anyway, so much for the healthy diets of the Italians----garlic galore, salads, beautiful pasta meals, it's their immunity systems that need investigating. Are they perhaps more insular in their way of life ? Self sufficient with everything grown locally and no need to venture beyond their home environments ?

WHY isn't the chief clown closing pubs in London and all the places crowds gather ? It seems ridiculous when London has the highest number of cases.In fact why doesnt someone ANYONE put Bojo into isolation for the next few months ,then there might be a chance of getting CV under contro;.The man is clearly a waste of space with his waffling and no real answers

Flaxwoven, there are hundreds out in the 32 degree sunshine on Bondi Beach and authorities are considering closing state borders there as well having disallowed flights in and out of the continent.

Worldometer.com has a full listing.

This is my opinion - I haven't seen this written anywhere but it's logical - we know that this virus does not like the heat. Its high lipid component that makes it greasy and stick to the lung walls is susceptible to being melted, and if that happens the virus structure collapses. This is scientific fact and the reason why we are told to drink warm water and definitely not cold or iced water. If we can weaken this thing before it gets into our systems we have a better chance. The first case in Italy was linked with a ski resort in January - a cold, snowy, icy environment is just the place for this virus to survive because its greasy shell remains intact. So it came out of that ski resort in a very strong position. That's all we need to know - the rest is common sense. The closer it gets to warmer temperatures, the less virulent it will be - but the big problem is whether it will become clever and mutate and it has a good opportunity to do that because of the complacency of the general public. And yes Sparklefizz, smoking directly affects the grip of the virus because the lung walls are already damaged . Now where do you go from there - do you restrict ventilators to smokers I wonder? Big dilemma for us to consider - as for Italy, we do know that people over 60 and those under with compromised immunity have not been ventilated and have not been resuscitated when they have arrested - heaven forbid we reach that situation.

the danger is the young infecting the old. If you are old living in an old community you could have very low numbers...it is when there are old scattered amongst the young the danger is higher. This is not prescriptive - we'd all like to live with our young relatives but not for now...keep away from the buggers

not spaghetti thank you for your acknowledgement.

I read somewhere (but sorry but I haven't been able to track it down again) that Italy counts mortalities differently - that anyone elderly who dies in hospital now is recorded as being a CV death, even when other factors were at play. Another point is that apparently the virus is able to remain hovering in the air, and thus more likely to be inhaled, while other 'older versions' fall to the ground.

23% of Italy's population is over 65 and they spend a lot of time with younger loved ones. Personally I think we need lockdown sooner rather than later.

'y hink one of the reasons is that they didn’t go into total lockdown sufficiently early enough.*
This is what worries me. We are in the same position in the UK will. We be like Italy and Spain in a few weeks time?

I know that the mortality figures for Italy have overtaken the figures for China but does anyone really think that the Chinese data will be accurate? I suspect that the number of deaths in China were rather economical with the truth.

shortlegs
Can we have a virtual GN dinner with all your pasta please?

It has taken Mother Nature a long time to put a bullet in the right chamber; combining high contagion with asymptomatic carriers and a significant death rate, but she has done it. and don't we know it.
Our biggest danger are those who don't believe it. A great guy who delivered me a package (hermes) yesterday told me he thought it was a media scam, no protection necessary. I ran in and washed my hands - after imploring him to believe it and wear disposable gloves as a basic precaution...but it was his disbelief that was the greatest threat. He said it was in God's hands.
I'm sure we all know people who say - 'more people die of conventional flu' blah blah blah'.
Its very difficult we are a not a people that takes to authoritarianism, we must believe the threat and act responsibly for ourselves and to everyone. Let's do all we can to encourage that.

There are lots of Chinese owned factories in the north and many workers went home to Wuhan for NY ( one theory). The lockdown of the red zone in the north was leaked and thousands fled to the south and over to Sicily which was relatively safe. 19000 registered in Sicily that weekend. They returned to their families, spreading the virus. Then 2 factories in Milan closed and the trains to Sicily were crammed again. Yes there are a lot of older people dying - accommodation is often more crowded with many generations but younger people can get it. My son lives in southern Sicily. They only have a handful of ICU beds as the money has always been poured into northern mainland. Some of the 19000+ who came over will soon be presenting with symptoms . They have soldiers on the streets, can only go out once a day - new laws from just night. Sorry for the long post. I know it’s a drag but do stay home people- no pubs, meals, Mother’s Day gatherings. Be safe....

I wish I could take my 82 year old mother to Italy and see all the grief that exists, then maybe lock down would sink in with her. She refuses to do so and continues to go out everyday and everywhere, and on public transport. I am actually crying as I write this because I can't keep her safe.
My husband is self employed and I've told her if we get virus we have no income. She turns up at my house 1 or 2 times a day and where as I love her deeply it is so selfish and I may have to turn her away.

New on here so don’t know how to reply to someone, but granbabies123, trying saying going out is akin to NOT having a polio/mumps/German measles jab. That might make her think/understand the community concept. I’m embarrassed at my generation ( nearly 70)

I read one article on altnewsmedia.net that the Chinese bought a lot of leather goods factories in northern Italy and Italy then allowed 100,000 Chinese workers from Wuhan and Whenzou into Italy to work who then went back to China for New Year.
Women like to buy designer handbags made in Italy not made in China so it’s a huge market.