Italy

Callistemon Thanks for that. I've also noticed from your post how bad my typing Is.

OK, so now we've discussed why the virus is rampant in Italy. What about Iran, do they have thousands of Chinese workers or many more old people than the rest of the middle east?

Children spend more time in families including grandparents in Italy and there is also now evidence that by taking ibuprofen a person can become more seriously ill from the virus.
Cafes in Italy are often visited 2 or 3 times a day by older retirees and som3 stay all day playing cards and drinking.
There could even be environmental factors as the mafia have extensively polluted farmland with toxic waste and water supplies have been polluted in many areas too.

Being Chinese per se, was never the threat.....Westerners who traveled to Wuhan during the initial outbreak were just as likely to be sickened or become carriers. That's because this is an 'equal opportunity' virus! Anyone can get sick from it or become a carrier, regardless of race or nationality!

Xgran Apparently the taking of ibuprofen causing harm is fake news. The NHS website says so, in so many words.

Our youngest daughter lives in a central Milan flat and has been working from home for almost 4 weeks. Her husband, a Milanese lawyer, stopped walking to his office ( 7 minutes away) as of last Wednesday. They stopped all social activities 4 weeks ago and shop only in small local food shops with additional home delivery. Everyone around them has been following the rules to the letter. However, although they are well, they hear ambulances throughout the day and night, as they live near several important hospitals and have noticed that other flats in their block seem empty, indicating that occupants fled early on, perhaps saving their lives, perhaps spreading the virus elsewhere.

I cannot emphasise enough, however, how the first Western country to be faced with this catastrophe has coped, despite the statistics,how top class the health care is, and how,despite the populist,right-wing government, any element of racism has been challenged and refuted by the over-whelming majority of the Milanese.

Sorry, by “ everyone around them”, I meant family, friends and colleagues.

Apologies as I have not read every post but this article time.com/5799586/italy-coronavirus-outbreak/ includes the observation:

Yet some health officials believe that the virus arrived in Italy long before the first case was discovered. “The virus had probably been circulating for quite some time,” Flavia Riccardo, a researcher in the Department of Infectious Diseases at the Italian National Institute of Health tells TIME. “This happened right when we were having our peak of influenza and people were presenting with influenza symptoms.”

Before the first case was reported, there was an unusually high number of pneumonia cases recorded at a hospital in Codogno in northern Italy, the head of the emergency ward Stefano Paglia told the newspaper La Repubblica, suggesting it is possible patients with the virus were treated as if they had a seasonal flu. Health facilities hosting these patients could have become sites for infection, helping proliferate the spread of the virus.

Particularly poignant for me because my uncle, in his eighties and a resident of Rome died in hospital the day before the first confirmed case of Covid 19 in Italy. My uncle was a contributor to Wanted In Rome a site for expats living in Italy and today they published this:

www.wantedinrome.com/news/rome-hospital-discharges-chinese-couple-italys-first-coronavirus-cases.html

Sending virtual hugs to everyone that needs them at this time of apprehension and uncertainty.

PS Gransnet - is it time for a hugs emoji?

Very interesting Sophrosyne.
I think this adds weight to my earlier post about comparative reporting, testing and diagnosing cases. Between nations and
before giving out definitive figures.

Giulia we are near Cassino

Vegansrock - thank you for your posts which seem to be sticking up for and defending Italy. I am english and live in Como with my italian husband and it’s horrendous at the moment.
So many pre-conceived ideas , Italians do this do that etc.etc. You are absolutely correct in saying we do not live in each others pockets, grand parents have their own houses around here, not all are in apartment blocks. Everything has been mentioned from smoking, kissing , old age, mafia even the diet and I sense a bit of a sneering attitude in some of the posts. Hope it never gets this bad for you all in the UK

Din this is what NHS website says

Ibuprofen
There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse.

But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you.

If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first.

I think we all should be careful when posting medical advice and ALWAYS give a reputable link

Thank you, Sophrosyne, and I wholeheartedly agree with you, Fennel.

You are quite right Buddly and vegan and I hope I haven't inadvertently said offensive things. Of course Italy is a large and varied country and one I would love to visit. We should all be aware of sweeping generalisations but we are none the wiser as to why it has been hit so hard?

Sophrosyne - I can certainly believe the virus was circulating earlier. Six weeks before Swine Flu was diagnosed in this country I presented at the Drs with severe respiratory infection. She immediately diagnosed pneumonia but said she was very concerned there was a virus going round as I was her third case that day and none of us ticked the vulnerability box.

Thank you Greymar, very kind of you to say that.
It’s not difficult being stuck at home but watching the television is terrible and we seem to be close to tears all the time watching the news here, knowing it is so close to us and there is nothing we can do to help (except stay in?)

The fear is that we are just behind them and we will be similarly affected quite rapidly unless we follow strict restrictions.

Goldenage There is something doing the rounds on social media which mentions drinking warm water and avoiding cold drinks. It's rubbish and these recommendations aren't official.

@ Buddly
I wasn't trying to attack Italy in my previous post about comparative figures, God forbid.
I was just trying to point out the possible differences in reporting etc of cases between E Asian and S European countries.
Even those don't explain the current tragic situation in Italy.

I’m actually wondering if it was in this country before??? My stepson had a terrible virus in November, then at the beginning of December my husband got it and within a few days I had it. The symptoms were identical.... dry cough, no appetite, sore throat, temperature, headaches, being very weak, the lot! I’d had my flu jab, my husband did not. I finally made to the doctor and was put on strong antibiotics straight away. I was told it was a particularly bad virus that was going around, my neighbour and husband also got it! The cough was terrible, no matter what we took, it wouldn’t shift it, we both had to go back and get more antibiotics! The thing is, I never get ill, the last time I was poorly must be 25 years ago. We stopped all visits from the rest of the family in case we passed it on! Can we be sure it wasn’t around before the Chinese admitted it? If not, what was this virus? The doctors tell you you’ve had/got a virus but never say what it’s called! I don’t trust anybody!

I had a horrible virus, a few weeks ago - it would-be good if we could be tested retrospectively to see if you had it / are immune.

Why is it so bad in Italy? Italy isn’t unique. You will be able to ask the same question about the UK within two weeks. It would have helped us if the British Government had shut down bars, restaurants, Gyms etc sooner.

The problem is that this country is now being run by the people behind Vote Leave, like the idiot who runs Weatherspoons.

"Wetherspoons boss says UK pubs will stay open as long as possible"

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/20/coronavirus-wetherspoons-boss-says-uk-pubs-will-stay-open-as-long-as-possible

For goodness sake, Varian. Give it a rest.
That particular battle is over.

The battle against coronavirus is certainly not over, and we are "lions led by donkeys".

If you voted for these donkeys it may take you that bit longer to wake up to reality but I hope you will eventually see the truth of our predicament.