What a shower - they are not fit to govern the country

For those of you that seem to have a way out of this differently, can you share what you think needs doing now, not respectively. Just whom do you think has the personality and attributes to do this.

This thread produced a wider spectrum of views than I had expected. It has been restrospective but our current situation is a consequence of past mistakes and actions taken correctly. There is no easy way out but in any case we have to learn from and admit to past mistakes as well as continuing good practice.

The lockdown has to be eased with inevitable risks. It appears that it was deliberate policy to move Covid positive patients into the community and to care homes. In the community the risk is balanced but in care homes it was unforgivable to knowingly let anyone with Covid in.

Our statistics are bad but compiled differently from other countries so comparison is not valid. Relying on tests must be tempered with the delay between taking the test and getting the result. Catch up is therefore not fully possible.

Our lack of preparedness was due to austerity which was not necessary if the government had not been terrified of putting a couple of pence on income tax. Increaing the money supply by printing money simply causes inflation, remember "Barber the Printer". The taxation levels in the 1950's and 1960's kept the economy better balanced. Some overpaid people of dubious talent may have moaned and left but as a country we do not miss them.

Common sense has to rule the way forward. Individual responsibility, difficult with so many people who don't care, is the key to a successful containment of Covid.

Finally the biggest past mistake is Brexit which the majority of the population recognise. Brexit can be cancelled if there is a will. Most of us would be relieved. I do not wish Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg, Nigel Farage or even Dominic Cummings harm but the country will be better off when they are out of the picture.

No, Brexit it cannot be cancelled, the documents he been signed. To go back into the EU we would have to reapply and wait our turn and be treated like any other new country. We would of course have to adopt the Euro and any other conditions imposed on us without too much say in the matter. In other words our position would be quite different to the one we left. Not much hope for fishing!!!

If the majority of the population recognise Brexit as a big mistake how come this wasn't reflected in the GE of 5months ago, or have we had a secret referendum since then that has passed me by?!! In other words how do you know this as a fact?!!

I totally agree with the OP, and also with MaisieD (11th May 13.41) regarding how macro finance works at national level. It cannot be equated with a domestic budget. It's simply not the same. The national finances are completely within the Government's control.

Regarding the current situation, two things are relevant: a) every other nation will be in the same boat; and b) the solution need not be higher taxation (or higher taxation alone).

"Jabberwok" the reason the GE was lost was down to Jeremy Corbyn being leader of the Labour Party. At the time neither the Labour Party nor the Liberal Democrats had credible leaders, Boris Johnson was seen as the best option by around a third of voters, a third voted Labour or Libdem, the remaining third chose not to vote. As to cancelling Brexit the EU would be delighted and let us cancel if we wished to. The majority in parliament does not reflect the will of the people.

Well, all I can say to your rather bizarre comments is ' In your dreams' and leave it at that!

Thanks, Blinko. Nice to know some people agree with me. I feel so alone sometimes

Jabberwok ?? I think your comment cover it well.?

Well Said GagaJo Ha Mon 11-May-20 20:55:24

Cheers, MaisieD

Dont feel alone maisieD some of us lurkers are listening to you understanding what you are saying and agreeing with you. Just because we dont comment doesnt mean we are not hearing or understanding what you are saying.

jabberwok The USA health system isn't "free at the point of delivery" but it is still a shambles.

Given the way the NHS has been starved of resources over the last ten years, I think it has done a very good job.

I agree with you Cindersdad but yddasril is right - this is the government that people voted for, and Johnson is the man that many people still admire - unfathomably.

All the excitement over Brexit seems a bit hollow now, “ Striking deals all over the world”? Buying food from the USA instead of 50 miles away? Controlling our borders - when we are the only EU country that hasn’t bothered?

Don’t feel alone MaisieD and don’t think we haven’t noticed the poster whose only contributions are acid remarks often aimed at you.

Cindersdad

Please stop banging on about cancelling Brexit, it ain’t gonna happen!!!!

Sadly no, but where is the “banging on”?

Maizie your assertion that a government cannot run out of money may well be technically correct - they can keep printing money. However the value of the currency can fall so low that the cost of imports and technology impoverishes the population.

There have been plenty of countries in this situation to a greater or lesser degree. Zimbabwe is a good example where for political reasons the whole productive ability of the entire country was shut down. Not just export ability, food production as well, adding to that widespread corruption and even after 30 yrs there has been little recovery. Currently we have Venezuela, Argentina and many other countries where the currency is worthless, where the largest banknote is worth 50p. To fill your car up you take a roll of notes that fills your pocket, all commercial transactions are done in hard currency usually US dollars.

This happens in the U.K, after WW2 Sterling was worth over 3 dollars since then our economy has gradually weakened and now worth $1.20, not a great performance. It’s not possible to predict what exchange rates are going to be after Covid 19, the US has its own problems, the Euro countries have their problems. Getting caught with no trade agreements is not a good position in a recession, so to balance the books, either austerity, higher taxation or sterling falls in value.

Let me ask you a question, Davidhs

In 1960 the population of the UK was 52.2 million and average weekly earnings were £12 - 14 pw. In 2020 the UK population is verging on 67 million and average weekly earnings are about £431.

To achieve that there has clearly been an enormous increase in the UK's supply of money over the intervening 60 years.

Can you explain how this has happened?

Yes there has been an enormous increase in money supply but there has also been massive inflation, when the younger generation comment on the price of everything I remind them of that. When my bungalow was built in 1970 it cost £5k, its value now over £250k, an increase of 50 fold

I’ve just checked wages for 1970, average manual £26 doubling the 1960 rate, apply the house inflation rate we should be averaging £1300 each week, a stunning comparison. In 1970 housing costs were affordable, it seems that it’s not housing costs are too high, wages have fallen way below the level 50 yrs ago.

Please somebody tell me my comparison is wrong!. Surely wages cannot have depreciated in real terms by a factor of 2.5.
Or have we become so much less efficient?.

Where has that increase in the money supply come from, David?

Yes, there has been inflation over the 60 years but there have been low rates of annual inflation ever since the peak in the early 80s. The UK isn't suffering from an increase in money supply, is it?

In fact, we're suffering from austerity, which cut the amount of money circulating in the economy.

House prices are an indication of the general rule that scarcity of a product that everyone wants will inflate its price...

Have we become 2.5 times less efficient?.

Thinking about my own question, as a nation we probably have, when you think of all the red tape, administration and services we take for granted. Resources have to be found to provide what we want at the expense of productive capacity, we are actually paying for that in lower wages.

Our age group does not feel the impact we got on the housing ladder 40+ years ago younger generations are finding it impossible.

I'm not getting your reasoning at all. David.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Resources have to be found to provide what we want at the expense of productive capacity,

Maizie, we spend ever increasing amounts and employ more workers on education, social services, health and care, environmental improvements, none of these produce any income they are just spending resources.

Voters demand these services and governments have borrowed money consistently to fill the gap without realizing that wages have been eroded so much over the years. The national economy has not balanced the books for decades, in addition sterling has fallen steadily.

People in public services aren't just spending resources. They are providing the resources the country needs to create wealth, in the form of a healthy, well-educated population. Without them, the country is nothing.

I would have thought that the current situation has highlighted the importance of health/care workers, teachers, transport staff, posties, emergency utilities workers, etc etc. Some of those services have now been privatised, but essentially they are doing a public service role.