Shameless Lib Dem MP who furloughed himself

Firecracker123
MamaCaz this thread is about wealthy peers and so called celebs milking the tax payer by your comments and varian's comments or lack of comments more likely I can only assume you both find this acceptable.
Trying to deflect posts and making it about the OP only confirms by belief.

Never assume anything, Firecracker. In many cases, as in this one, you would be incorrect.

It's just that you very early on in the thread started bandying about terms like those I used in my post, so I was not 'deflecting' anything!

MamaCaz this thread is about wealthy peers and so called celebs milking the tax payer by your comments and varian's comments or lack of comments more likely I can only assume you both find this acceptable.

Trying to deflect posts and making it about the OP only confirms by belief.

Firecracker123 Sat 23-May-20 09:55:59
Who knew that if you voted for Boris and supported Leave you were a right wing extremist, how ridiculous.

That's funny, coming from someone who constantly refers to those you perceive as less right-wing than yourself as "lefties", "bleeding-heart Liberals"or "socialists" (of the champagne variety or not)!

Or to put it another way:

Who knew that if you didn't vote for Boris or support Leave you were a lefty Liberal/Socialist/Communist extremist. How ridiculous.

Gransnet doesn't reflect real life, in some cases, I find.

MissAdventure It's not just varian. Read some of the comments on GN.

I agree with both of you Callistemon and MissAdventure. I wasn't trying to make excuses for Steve Coogan, but I do object when people are vilified for all sorts of other character flaws when they do something wrong.

I'm not a Steve Coogan fan. I don't think he's funny, but that's probably just me - many other people think he's funny. I also think he's somebody with a short fuse, who made himself very unpopular with the mainstream press during the phone hacking investigations.

However, I do know somebody who worked with l'Arche (one of the charities he supports) and has met him. Apparently, he's very intense and does sincerely believe in the charity's work and dips his hand in his own pocket.

A flawed character for sure (why on earth do we ever expect celebs to be perfect?) and what he did with the furloughing was legal, but morally wrong. I personally know two other people who have done the same and could have afforded to pay themselves. Maybe the legislation itself was flawed.

AFAIK Coogan comes from a large family of modest means. I don't begrudge him making money. (Lord Fox also comes from a very modest family background.) Why do people always seem to judge them more harshly than those from privileged families, born into wealth, who get away with all sorts of tax wheezes? Whenever tax dodging is raised, the argument always seems to be that if something's legal, why not?

I only hear the phrases you use from you, Varian and I live in what is one of the most Brexit supporting areas.

Of course not everyone who voted leave and voted for Boris Johnson is a right wing extremist, but I have never heard anyone use phrases like "champagne socialist" and "bleeding heart liberal" who was not extremely rightwing.

Doing a lot for charity is absolutely not a measure of the kind of person someone is, neither is it a reason to get away with taking advantage of something put in place to help people who need it.

Many people do a lot for charity too, including those whose income is far less than his, quietly and without fanfare.

Surely being of such a generous spirit he could reason that 'charity begins at home' and pay his servants in full instead of claiming taxpayers' money and saving himself a few thousands.

varian yesterday 15.52

skivers and scroungers", "work-shy benefit claimants", "swamped by immigrants who take our jobs", "too clever by half", "so-called experts", "marxist plot", etc, etc, straight out of the Daily Mail/Daily Express/ Sun phrasebook for stirring up hatred, that makes it so easy to spot a right wing extremist.

Your the one using these words no one else.

Who knew that if you voted for Boris and supported Leave you were a right wing extremist, how ridiculous.

It doesn't matter where he lives, I don't care what he earns as long as he pays his dues, but I resent someone who is so rich but furloughing his staff and expecting taxpayers, some of whom are really struggling at the moment, to fund his meanness. I wonder if he is making up the rest of their wages?

There are Gransnetters on here who are continuing to pay their cleaners throughout this. I doubt any of them have anywhere near the income that Coogan earns.

Still, as I said, no-one becomes that rich by being kind and generous.

It's nothing to do with where, or how people live, or their political/charity stance.

Yes, Steve Coogan has been a hypocrite, but he does actually do quite a lot for charity, especially homeless and disabled.

I always think it's a bit odd that somebody as wealthy as he obviously is (and which he's earned), is supposed to live in a slum to prove "socialist" credentials. If I were stinking rich, I'd want to live somewhere nice too. It doesn't mean that I would stop caring about people.

Steve Coogan is a hypocrite too.

He do the rich stay rich? Not by being kind and generous.

How strange {well perhaps not} that the vocal left wing posters can't say a word against wealthy leftwing Steve Cougan who has furloughed his personal housekeeper and gardener.

No-one defended Lord Fox. No reason why anyone should be defending or condemning anyone just to satisfy your prejudices. Do stop whipping yourself up into a frenzy about things that don't exist, Firecracker Things like non existent 'defences'..

Whether or not he is an MP or a Member of the H of L - he has cheated the system, he's been named and shamed. There is no defence, some posts are red herrings.
I voted Lib Dem.

He's now paying it back and so should others who have fleeced the taxpayer.

It is the use of hate-filled cliches such as "champagne socialists" and "bleeding heart liberals" along with "skivers and scroungers", "work-shy benefit claimants", "swamped by immigrants who take our jobs", "too clever by half", "so-called experts", "marxist plot", etc, etc, straight out of the Daily Mail/Daily Express/ Sun phrasebook for stirring up hatred, that makes it so easy to spot a right wing extremist.

Liberals are not socialists, bleeding hearts or not.

CHAMPAGNE Socialist Namely, any person, be it a celebrity, musician, writer or politician (commonly), who nominally espouse the virtues of Socialism and champion the hardships of living a down-to-earth existence among the disenfranchised and down-trodden of society, yet, actually holiday half of the year on plush islands, accept honours from the Queen and rub shoulders with the affluent over horderves.

These people are generally bleeding-heart Liberals on the outside, relishing the reflective glory of the appearance of being sympathetic to the plight of the working man, yet, when they are confronted with genuine poverty and urban degradation, choose to live far away in the country where the smell can't get to them.

How strange {well perhaps not} that the vocal left wing posters can't say a word against wealthy leftwing Steve Cougan who has furloughed his personal housekeeper and gardener. Hypocrisy comes to mind.

As a neutral I love turning these things around to see if they still run true and guess what.....

There seems to be a growing belief amongst some that anything other than socialism must be fascism. BNP under the bed and all that. They self identify by opposition to a mythical bogey-man just as much as they crave mythical unicorns.

So funny to do this with left and right bleatings tweetings!

Strange conclusion to reach, Sussexborn. That's not at all what the tweet said. I posted it because it articulated what I felt about a certain rightwing mindset. It has nothing to do with the actual case under discussion. It's just about the mindset of the person who raised it, and of other rightwingers.

Now Lord Fox is being referred to as a mythical bogeyman! ??. Whatever next!

Definitely agree with Glorybee! No party is full of saints or sinners though some posters seem to pose the opposite view.

TBH he probably just went along with whatever his accountant suggested. Something we learned not to do many years ago.