Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter

Great, easy to understand article Madgran!

Summerlove Spot on!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Interesting

Yes, what Summerlove said

timetogo2016

Racism goes both ways,it`s about time that was acknowledged.
I treat everyone equally and thats how we should behave but it won`t happen,this will get out of hand for sure.
I am more worried about this than covid 19.

Racism does not go both ways

Prejudice does

There is a massive difference.

There was a comment to the effect that this murder occurred in the US so it's nothing to do with us and people in this country shouldn't get involved in protests.

I don't agree with that. People often comment and protest about regimes that they believe mistreat their citizens. Many people, for instance (including me) criticise Saudi Arabia's treatment of women, immigrant workers and dissidents. It is only because these issues were highlighted in other countries that certain measures were moderated, eg women being allowed to drive (although the women who were brave enough to campaign for this have been imprisoned and ill treated - and so this can by no means be described as a great triumph) and have access to education and healthcare without the consent of a male guardian.

I think it is particularly incumbent on us to protest about these issues when our government is trading with
such countries, often selling them crowd control equipment which are used to repress dissent.

Rosalyn what evidence do you have to support your guess that "a lot wanted an outing and a chance to make a ruckus." I would imagine there are much more pleasant "outings" to be had. To suggest that many of the people present did not sincerely feel moved by the horror and sadness of this unlawful and inhumane act is, I think, based on your own prejudices rather than on fact.

The murder of Stephen Lawrence was an act committed by thugs and criminals but what followed was a proven dereliction of duty - and obvious examples of racism - by the police team that investigated the murder - so in that sense "institutionalised racism" was responsible for the killers not being speedily brought to justice.

It's hard to say racism wouldn't exist if people didn't talk about it when the man who leads our country makes chimp noises at black people on social occasions.
twitter.com/realnatalierowe/status/1117453001638207489?lang=en

Where our PM refers to 'Watermelon smiles' and 'pickaninnies'.
www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-defends-his-offensive-articles-about-black-and-gay-people-2019-6?r=US&IR=T

...and refers to women wearing burkas as 'letter boxes'
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45083275

If the man holding the top job in the country talks this way, NOT talking about racism is hardly likely to make it go away!

I agree with timetogo - racism can go both ways, and there is much to do. Hatred is directed at black people by the ignorant and also directed at the Police for no reason. There have been and no doubt are racists in the force but that doesn't mean all are - and I find it so worrying when support for a most worthy cause is hijacked by the 'let's smash everything up and loot from local shops because we can' faction of society. Peaceful protest can say it all; violence simply takes over the message of the cause.

Racism goes both ways,it`s about time that was acknowledged.
I treat everyone equally and thats how we should behave but it won`t happen,this will get out of hand for sure.
I am more worried about this than covid 19.

Who are the forces stoking up racial disharmony? Interesting video explaining the factual evidence of 'Police racism' in the U.S
.https://www.facebook.com/DavidJHarrisJr/videos/601088813846177

I agree, education is the first step.

But when those doing the educating or educating their older long held beliefs, it’s certainly not going to do much good. So educating the older minds who are educating the younger minds is every bit as important in my opinion.

Summerlove. We talk at length on here when the people we should be talking to are our children/grandchildren.

We are, most of us of a certain age, and we have our differing ideas that we have probably held for some time. It is difficult to change the minds of people with set ideas. That is why young minds matter.

We have a responsibility to them to teach them to accept others no matter the colour of their skin.

We are all born in the same way. We all have hearts, lungs etc. The colour of our skin shouldn't be an issue but it seems it has been for hundreds of years.

It is time to change that and we can do that through education and acceptance.

Of course there will be areas in life such as you describe where everyone gets along well but Your experience is exactly that - your experience.

Everyone getting on together isnt really the issue here though is it. The fact is that if me and my equally qualified and experienced friend/colleague both applied for the same job, I would statistically have a significanty greater chance of being shortlisted for interview and getting the job than her ...because I have a "white" sounding name whereas she has an "ethnic" sounding name! So she immediately, through no fault of her own and with nothing to do with her ability to do that job has an extra huge hurdle to jump over that I have never and will never have as shown by clear and well analysed statistics over many years!! That is systemic and probably largely unconscious racism and little to do with "getting on together".

Alongside the massive numbers of black men who are stopped and searched ...in comparison to other groups ...when they are just going about their business and doing NOTHING that suggests they are doing anything suspicious...but they are black!! Saw an example the other day of a bloke wandering out if a local Sainsburys buying spinach for his Grandma being stopped and searched! Dressed in jeans and a jumper!! Hmmm!

Now ofcourse there will always be examples of the opposite but statistics show those examples are significantly less available than the versions I have described. This is systemic because it is about assumptions, ingrained perceptions, often but not always unconscious.

So if we just dont talk about it, dont recognise it, dont look at our advantages, our disadvantages, our assumptions and societal systems that allow this, nothing will ever change and our next generations will absorb the same "norms"

AGAA4

Exactly EllanVannin. Talking about it is not actually doing anything.
What we can do is teach our children/grandchildren to never accept racism.
That is something we can all do

....How do you do this without talking about it?

What’s so dangerous?

It continues the hatred and the inequity. It shows the black community that they are indeed worthless. That you feel their experiences are wrong, lies, made up. You are dismissing them and their experiences out of hand, because it’s not your experience. Many women on this thread are dismissing the experience as not one they have had.

So many people having that attitude is what has left us where we are today.

That’s why it’s dangerous.

I’ve never understood why so many white women who claim not to be racist have such an issue with black lives matter.

No one is saying your lives don’t matter, and the fact that you think that’s what is being said shows shocking naïveté to the world around you.

Keeping black lives a seat at the table takes nothing away from white women. There’s absolutely no reason to not support it. However, so many people prefer to dismiss the movement and complain about other things. We can be angry about many things at once, or at least some of us apparently can.

Honest question to everybody who thinks supporting this is wrong or that racism doesn’t exist or that the UK is not racist. What do you lose by admitting you’re wrong? What do you lose by trying to be an ally and help lift other people up?

Really, what do you lose?

Exactly EllanVannin. Talking about it is not actually doing anything.
What we can do is teach our children/grandchildren to never accept racism.
That is something we can all do

*Exactly as it translates Madgran.
If you keep picking at a sore it'll never heal. The same goes for this subject.*

But the circumstances have to be right for a sore to heal!!! Otherwise it just festers...and THAT is where we have been for a long time with it festering!!!

Exactly as it translates Madgran.
If you keep picking at a sore it'll never heal. The same goes for this subject.

What's so " dangerous " about saying that Summerlove ??

Do we have to wait for another death before anything is done to improve the situation ? What are YOU going to do to help ? Actions speak louder than words !

And that starts in the nursery to teach children to accept everyone.
There are too many adults with ingrained ideas about race that have been taught to them by other bigoted people. It would be very hard to change them now so the only way is to look to our young people to make a better world.

And seeing as we are predominantly women, you would think we are all equipped to understand this one. Now that our Husbands aren't allowed to beat us, or take sex from us without our permission, or keep us at home with no say in our own lives.

What would women have said back then? When we wanted equality? Would we have tolerated men saying "all sexes matter" when they had not suffered as we had?

No we would not, because we wanted to matter just as much as men, they already mattered.

And are we there completely? Do we have absolute equality? No, no we don't and we won't give up until we do.

No matter how much the situation for black people nay have improved, it's not there yet and we should support them until they are.

EllanVannin

If people stopped talking about racism there wouldn't be any such thing !

That’s hilariously naive.

Also, dangerously wrong.

People are very short sighted on this one. Of course all lives matter, that's a given, it doesn't actually need saying. What needs saying, right now, said and heard, is that black lives matter.

Black lives matter and we will not let racism take those lives away.

"what about" and thats the reason the Black community is negleted in so many ways.Its like someone with breast cancer campaining an dbeing told whats so special about breast cancer what about all the other cancers aren't they important too.
Black lives matter almostelderly simply because for centiries they were treated as second class citizens,sold on markets to "owners" who used the women and worked the men to death..thousnads of families who dont know where they came from or what their real name is because they were compelled to take the owners name.
Yes there has been some improvement especially in the past half a decade but not nearly enough .
Yes the Rochdale case was disgraceful but not because of "racism" because for the main part the police believed that under age girls were capable of being sex workers and didn't see them as being abused If they had listened istead of blaming these vulnerable girls it would have been an open and closed case ..sadly they continued to blame the victims ...as you and many on here are doing with your "all lives matter" nonsense.
NO one is saying all lives dont matter ,but now while the focus is on Black lives then they must be given precedence.Its what humane grown ups do .

Has anyone mentioned the Rochdale Grooming Gang? The gang of predominantly Pakistani men who were terrorising vulnerable, white working class girls, young girls with no voice? The police were reluctant to pursue the investigation into the gang, the authorities were afraid of being branded 'racist'.

I'm unclear what this has got to do with the BLM discussion?