Marcus Rashford letter

Bodach I'm Scottish too but never did the "Qualifying". I'd never heard of it actually, so I Googled it.

This was at the top of the results: In Scotland, those who sat the 11-plus had two potential fates: the senior secondary, which offered a chance to sit Highers and go on to university, or the junior secondary, which led to life in a trade or an unskilled job. At just 11 years old, your future could be sealed with no hope of a retrial

I think that sums up the problem right there.

I may be wrong but I think that the pass rates for the Qually were rather higher than for the English eleven plus. Certainly the pass rates for the eleven plus varied greatly in different parts of England.

A friend who went to a primary school in a poor mining village told us that no-one from his school ever passed the eleven plus. Like all his classmates he went to the Secondary Modern but when he left at fifteen, he was the only boy in his year who didn't go down the pit.

He went to work as a clerk in the local hospital and many years later ended up as CEO of a Regional Hospital Board.

I wonder what many other of his classmates might have achieved had they not have been written off at the age of eleven.

It was purely an IQ test and the pass level was determined by how many grammar school places were available in your local area and local school.
There were more places available for boys in our town.

Actually it wasn’t just an IQ test. I sat three different tests. One was English, one Maths and the other an IQ test.

Maybe it was different in Wales and it certainly appeared fair as the children who passed the 11 plus in my class were split equally male/female. All like myself from working class families.

I think the 11+ was found to be biased.
Parents could school their children to pass, and those who were borderline were more likely to be given a space if they were middle class.

I'm not sure how it works now, but it was deemed to be unfair.

Callistemon

It was purely an IQ test and the pass level was determined by how many grammar school places were available in your local area and local school.
There were more places available for boys in our town.

I don't recall my primary school doing anything 'special' in the way of preparing us for the 11+. I do recall we had a pretty rounded education with time for everything; 'Arithmetic', English, Art & crafts, Music, PE, History. Unlike poor Y6s these days who are very often drilled for SATs with very little else on offer.

I don't remember the exam being stressful.

Out of a class of 44 only about half of us 'passed'.

It has long been said that the 'pass mark' for girls was higher than for boys, Callistomen, deliberately so otherwise more girls than boys would have gone to grammar school...

Having said that, the girls' grammar school I went to was very poor quality; most girls left at 16 with a few GCEs and very few went to university. Looking back I think it was a waste of the supposed 'top academic 15%'...

I think it's time it was abolished.

MaizieD, it has been abolished but a few towns kept a grammar school. Our town abolished all its grammar schools and in fact, set up one of the first comprehensives in the country. Our high schools are generally good or outstanding. The 11 plus was and remains, divisive. Alergrias2 is right, it ensured some children went down the pit and others to university. Often times with very little difference in their academic abilities

varian

The eleven plus exams in England did result in certain regretable attitudes in those who went to grammar school, which , gave them a sense of superiority, and unbelievably seem in some to persist into old age.

When I first went south to England many years ago, I met someone who boasted about her education, I was astonished to discover that the peak of her achievement was not a PhD or even a degree, but the fact that she had, by some fluke, passed the eleven plus and went to grammar school.

Why on earth are you making snide comments about GN members who attended grammar schools?
Did you fail the 11 plus? Just wondering....it was a long time ago you know.
I went to a primary school in a poor area in the North and half my class went onto different grammar schools ( girls in one boys the other) looking back it was quite a high percentage but the expectations of us by the teachers were high.

I don’t remember any prep really for doing it, and all I was hoping for if I passed was a watch if possible ( I heard other children saying they may get one if they passed.) I didn’t get one, but did get praise.I wasn’t fussed either way about which secondary school I went to.There was no help/ prep at home either, looking back it seems very relaxed.

The 11 plus was weighted 30% higher for girls, or so I was told during my teacher training.

I do know it was 'abolished', Iam but it still exists.

Oddly enough, my very poor girls' grammar is now one of the top 'state' schools in England because my hometown retained selection at 11

Ooo ... err! Rashford's just scored a hat trick against Leipzig. He's not a bad footballer.

Mind you, neither Manc team is doing very well at the moment. They need to go along the East Lancs road for a bit of class!

"Did you fail the 11 plus? Just wondering" posts lemon because there seems to be an assumption that only someone who failed the eleven plus would ever criticise the notion of election at eleven. I was educated in Scotland and so did not sit the eleven plus.

However DH went to an English primary school where he was one of only 2 out of a class of 40 who passed the eleven plus and went to grammar school. I also knew someone whose three children all failed the eleven plus in the 1970s and so paid for them all to go to private schools where they all did well enough to go on to university.

I believe that, a comprehensive school system give far better opportunities to more children, I was a school governor at the time our local schools were reorganised forty years ago and, in spite of the initial reluctance of some parents to send their children to what used to be a secondary modern, I'm glad to say it was a success. .

MaizieD, yes of course I should have acknowledged that some areas retained grammar schools. I totally agree with you, they should all be abolished.

I thought that (years ago) in Scotland, you could be selected for either a grammar school ( or similar) when you were about 14/15.Those children who were thought to be very intelligent were encouraged to put in for places.I read the autobiography of Hunter Davies last year, and that’s what he did.That was a very long time ago though.
I am on the fence about grammar schools really.....I did benefit from getting a place there because the aspirations for us were so high but presumably some children who went to the sec mod felt bad about it.As I said earlier, at the time I wasn’t at all bothered if I passed or not, and two of my friends who didn’t were excited about going there as the uniform was lovely ( unlike mine that was stuck in a 1930’s time warp.)
I think there are pros and cons about grammar schools, but on the whole a comprehensive school is better.

We still have several grammar schools (about 6, council run - no fees) in Trafford. One of the reasons our local district general hospital never has any problem recruiting doctors to live in the area!

I took the 11+ in 1968, cannot remember any extra preparation , this was in a small primary school in Hackney.

I passed and went to a Grammar school in Clapton.

We have 4 Grammar Schools locally (2 boys and 2 girls) many other schools have what they call a Grammar stream .

No free grammar schools here but our hospital is well staffed

The snob value of attending GS has grown. They used to be places where any bright kid could go...not so much now as postcode & local house prices are as much part of access as ability.

I don't remember the exam being stressful.
Me neither; I took it twice, once at 9 which I 'failed' but one of my friends passed so went to grammar school at just 10. We never really picked up on our friendship.

No grammar schools or academies here either although there are two popular independent schools.

I read the autobiography of Hunter Davies last year, and that’s what he did.

I should read that, as I thought he went to school in Cumbria with Melvyn Bragg and another author, whom we knew.

How did a thread about free school meals turn into a discussion about grammar schools?

I think it was something to do with a right wing poster boasting about passing thew eleven plus.

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