Marcus Rashford letter

Actually it wasn’t just an IQ test. I sat three different tests. One was English, one Maths and the other an IQ test.

It was purely an IQ test and the pass level was determined by how many grammar school places were available in your local area and local school.
There were more places available for boys in our town.

I may be wrong but I think that the pass rates for the Qually were rather higher than for the English eleven plus. Certainly the pass rates for the eleven plus varied greatly in different parts of England.

A friend who went to a primary school in a poor mining village told us that no-one from his school ever passed the eleven plus. Like all his classmates he went to the Secondary Modern but when he left at fifteen, he was the only boy in his year who didn't go down the pit.

He went to work as a clerk in the local hospital and many years later ended up as CEO of a Regional Hospital Board.

I wonder what many other of his classmates might have achieved had they not have been written off at the age of eleven.

Bodach I'm Scottish too but never did the "Qualifying". I'd never heard of it actually, so I Googled it.

This was at the top of the results: In Scotland, those who sat the 11-plus had two potential fates: the senior secondary, which offered a chance to sit Highers and go on to university, or the junior secondary, which led to life in a trade or an unskilled job. At just 11 years old, your future could be sealed with no hope of a retrial

I think that sums up the problem right there.

It was divisive btw, although we still remained friends many did not.

The eleven plus exams in England did result in certain regretable attitudes in those who went to grammar school, which , gave them a sense of superiority, and unbelievably seem in some to persist into old age.
Two of my best friends at primary school 'failed' the 11+ (the scholarship).
In our town we had two excellent single sex secondary modern schools and they went to the girls' school.

We all met up again at college.

varian

Not that it should make any difference to the logic of the argument, but I'll tell you anyway janpt. I am not a supporter of the Labour left or even of the Labour right.

I merely decry the eleven plus as a part of the English education system which was misguided and did more harm than good.

Does that imply that you didn't pass ?

Why is the eleven plus system being held up as a particularly Evil aspect of the Evil English Education system? I, along with all other Scottish schoolchildren sat eleven plus exams (known colloquially as "The Qualifying") in my final year at Primary School. I passed and went to a Senior Secondary (ie Grammar) school. Those who did not pass went to a Junior Secondary school. It seemed to suit us all pretty well...

Iam64 ?
Bet you and he would have some very interesting conversations about Man. Utd.! He was born 3 sets of traffic lights away from the ground and is a lifelong supporter ... from the days of Denis Law, Nobby Styles etc.
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IQ tests at dawn!!!!

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Not that it should make any difference to the logic of the argument, but I'll tell you anyway janpt. I am not a supporter of the Labour left or even of the Labour right.

I merely decry the eleven plus as a part of the English education system which was misguided and did more harm than good.

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Janpt I don’t understand your post ?

From FB
Imagine how desperate you must be feeling knowing you’re going to have to visit your local cafe or take away next week to get a free meal for your kids, you normally get by during the holidays but now your wages have been cut by a third or you’ve lost your job because businesses are shut, so things are tighter than usual.

Then imagine seeing people posting on Facebook, how you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t afford them, people are basically demonising the most needy because they need a little bit extra help... yes you’re still going to get the people taking advantage, you’re always going to have arseholes in the world, but your ignorant comments are unnecessary.
Some people have lost everything they have, some people are claiming benefits for the first time in their lives, some people are really not coping.
Don’t kick people whilst they’re down, it’s a proper scummy thing to do. If you can’t understand why people are struggling, you should think yourself very lucky.

From FB

These families complaining that they can’t feed their kids don’t know how lucky they are ! When I was a tiddler we mostly ate string. For xmas it was string dipped in goosefat and candlewax for pudding with a cherry on top. My family was classy – it was a ‘glace’ cherry. My mum never left us wanting. When I grew up I took Thatcher's advice and found a way to use other people’s labour very casually. Now I have nearly as many houses as Richie Sunak, and right proud I am. Now if I can do it then so can they – there’s no excuse.

People have the right to feel as superior as they like.
Doesn't make them right though.

varian

The eleven plus exams in England did result in certain regretable attitudes in those who went to grammar school, which , gave them a sense of superiority, and unbelievably seem in some to persist into old age.

When I first went south to England many years ago, I met someone who boasted about her education, I was astonished to discover that the peak of her achievement was not a PhD or even a degree, but the fact that she had, by some fluke, passed the eleven plus and went to grammar school.

I think in view of the snide comments usually from the Labour left some of us regardless of whether we went to Grammar school or not are right to feel superior.

varian, many thanks to you for the post at 18.21 today. I loathe the suggestion by some of the small percentage who went to grammar school that we should return to the system where the majority went to secondary modern schools. The same people who probably see "bog standard comprehensive schools" as the work of the devil.

Urmstongran - your husband needs to get a grip! Rashford is defo good enough and so is Ole ole ole ole.....

I did not pass the 11+ . Because I was entered for it late ( parents working abroad etc etc) so did not attend the special class where you learned how to do the non verbal reasoning parts and were coached in other aspects of the test. The first time I saw that type of question was when I looked at the 11+ paper! Some kids who got to grammar schools were bright and able children but others were just clever at tests.

My husband supports Man. Utd. He’s just exasperated with his football lately! All I hear when he’s watching a match is ‘c’mon Rashford ... what the heck was that? You’re just not good enough man’.
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The eleven plus exams in England did result in certain regretable attitudes in those who went to grammar school, which , gave them a sense of superiority, and unbelievably seem in some to persist into old age.

When I first went south to England many years ago, I met someone who boasted about her education, I was astonished to discover that the peak of her achievement was not a PhD or even a degree, but the fact that she had, by some fluke, passed the eleven plus and went to grammar school.

paddyanne

My apologies to janpt for suggesting she was uneducated .I merely meant her school had left the socialism movement off the agenda and she might benefit from reading about it and its links to Christianity .

Thanks for the apology. I will accept that I was uneducated in my knowledge of socialism. It probably wasn't included as part of my Grammar school syllabus. I assume the links to Christianity were about 'sell all you have and give to the poor'. However all that would achieve would be a typical Marxist situation where everyone was equally poor and unable to help anyone else.

Paid in full, with interest.

Tiggy W ,I think he has done.

Many parents are fortunate to have the means to feed their children what they require with no problems but remember these same parents are just 3 pay days away from poverty and it can happen to anybody so please do not judge FSMs being supplied to children you never know what is around the corner.