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Why aren't we proud anymore?

(157 Posts)
dragonfly46 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:05:14

I very rarely post on political threads as quite honestly they often just go nowhere but I have to ask where our proud has gone.

I lived in Europe for nearly 20 years and realised that we are the only nation which is not proud of our country. We constantly criticise and put ourselves down. This leads us open to the same from other nations. You would never hear a Dutchman, German, Frenchman, I could go on, running their country down like we do.

There are many threads on here about how the government have done everything wrong etc but is there one praising our scientists, doctors for discovering a simple drug which my cut Covid deaths by a third. At last we have something of which we should be proud so lets celebrate for once and stop bringing our once proud nation down.

Please do not say it is due to the left, right or even middle politics. This has been going on some time I moved to Europe in 1977 and it was apparent then.

Oldwoman70 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:11:12

This is something I was thinking this morning - in no other country is flying the national flag considered to be only done by "thugs".

The UK has much to regret - as have many other countries but you don't see patriotism being derided in any other country.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:13:46

Totally agree Dragonfly I am and always have been proud to be British.

Anniebach Wed 17-Jun-20 10:21:02

Could it be that we are four countries ?

Ellianne Wed 17-Jun-20 10:32:08

Very interesting dragonfly. I also lived in Europe and used to despair with foreigners not being able to laugh at themselves like we Brits do. I found their pride in their own nation almost arrogant.
Wind forward a decade or two and I now view that pride very differently. It preserves their nationality and culture and serves them in good stead in a crisis. Annie touches on a possible answer to our failings in this area - that the UK is so diverse now in so many ways that we have lost our sense of identity.
I sometimes despair that we can be so proud of our celebrities but not of our scientists, architects, farmers, teachers etc. It is time to see the amazing talents in our people.

Galaxy Wed 17-Jun-20 10:39:08

I think criticising the government is a key part of democracy of which I am proud.

Cherrytree59 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:40:29

Atm I rarely post on GN now.
I couldn't agree more Dragonfly
I am proud to be British.
Our scientists through the pandemic have been outstanding and our Laboratories and universities have worked there socks off.

Yesterday it was reported that there has been a break through by an Oxford lab, finding a pre existing drug that is useful to coronavirus patients on oxygen and ventilators.

This has been reported in several online newspapers around the world

I refuse to read anti British rants on the internet.

In real life my family and friends are pro British and happy to live in the UK.
Thankfull for our freedoms.
A country that stood together through this pandemic.
And a heath service that has provided care.
Built field hospitals with the help the military services in double quick time etc etc
I could go on and on...
But there will be the usual half glass full people ready to tell me I am wrong..

But hey ho we have flags fluttering all over our village which were put up for VE day.

Nandalot Wed 17-Jun-20 10:42:23

Oldwoman70, I had an interesting chat with my half Spanish granddaughter the other day. She says the Spanish National flag has become a symbol of the far right there.

NotSpaghetti Wed 17-Jun-20 10:45:13

I find this not to be universally true.
I think it's more nuanced and complex than the OP states.

I've also lived abroad in the 80s and also spent long periods abroad (not as resident) and find attitudes elsewhere also nuanced. It depends who you are talking to as well.

In Italy, for example, they may be proud of their heritage and their style but they are not (generalisations here) their corruption and paperwork/legal systems.

In Germany they are proud of their engineering but not the rise of Hitler (which still colours their thinking).

It's not a one-size fits all.

EllanVannin Wed 17-Jun-20 10:46:36

It's the very evident division that has been forced upon us. We're now the United States of Britain !

NotSpaghetti Wed 17-Jun-20 10:48:12

That's interesting Nandalot.
The far-right is rearing its ugly head all over the place. Maybe they are taking "possession" of country flags elsewhere?

Jabberwok Wed 17-Jun-20 10:49:35

When I go to Holland, the Dutch old and young are 'deeply grateful' for Bomber Command, and all our efforts to liberate them. In England, I virtually have to apologise for both! Everything this country does or has done, is awful, shameful, dreadful in every respect. No other European nation has such an appalling history as Britain, England in particular is diabolical! Nothing positive, always negative! You're right dragonfly, it's deeply depressing and actually not true!

mokryna Wed 17-Jun-20 10:50:08

It is true that the far right here have taken the French flag as theirs. However on Bank Holidays you will see is flying from all local council buildings and from local buses, there are fixtures on each side at the front bus for them.

JenniferEccles Wed 17-Jun-20 10:50:35

You are absolutely right dragonfly46.
I couldn’t agree more.

I have always been proud to be British and often feel grateful to have been born in what I consider to be the best country in the world.

The seemingly constant put downs is a mystery. We are world leaders in so many spheres of which the latest news of the virus treatment is a classic example.
This drug could save millions of lives worldwide. Brilliant.

Yet still as we see on GN some would prefer to rage on and on about how terrible everything is here with boringly predictable rants.

This thread is long overdue!

dragonfly46 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:52:52

Galaxy being critical of government is our democratic right. What I referring to is the way we run our own country down to other nations.
There is criticism of government and government policies in all countries but they tend to contain it and maintain their pride in their country.

I do not advocate swearing allegiance to the flag as they do in the US but every child in the Netherlands knew all the words to the National Anthem and hung the Dutch flag out of the window when they passed their final exams.

timetogo2016 Wed 17-Jun-20 10:53:03

I am veryproud of our/my country especially the way we have coped with Covid 19.
As for putting up flags, we were told by the local council to take down the union flag as it can offend minority groups and we only put the Engish flag up during football tournaments.
I find that offencive to me.

paddyanne Wed 17-Jun-20 11:01:46

Cherrytree there IS no British ,there is English ,Irish Welsh and Scots and I think you;ll find that the three celtic nations are very proud of their countries,their culture ,their people.
I dont know why the St Georges Cross was picked up by britnats but it was and it does bring shame on it .

However you have always been allowed to FLY your flag until very recent times we had to have permission from the Home Office (in London) to fly a Saltire on a flagpole for Scottish events,indeed Historic Scotland say they have to follow the rule and only fly the SCOTTISH flag on Scottish holidays at all other times they are obliged to fly the union flag ...thats over places like Edinburgh and Stirling Castle

.Maybe you should start a campaign to take back the flag ..I know tens of thousands of us have and we fly it proudly in gardens the length and breadth of the country ,if enough good people do the skinheads might leave it alone ,as it is if you see someone with a St Georges cross flag you cross the road to avoid trouble

paddyanne Wed 17-Jun-20 11:03:45

timetogo I dont think theres anything to be proud of in the covid mess,Bojo's 60,000 deaths are shocking and were avoidable...he had the information and the time to to deal with this in a way that didn't leave 60,000 families in mourning

Dinahmo Wed 17-Jun-20 11:05:38

Cherrytree59 It's true that the Nightingale Hospitals were "built in double quick time" but they were hardly used. Apparently the Excel Centre which opened on 3 April, with a bed capacity of 4000, is reported to have had 51 patients during it's first 3 weeks.

The NHS managed to cope with the existing hospitals and the staff shortages and we should (and are) be proud of them. But I really don't think that the commisioning of those temporary hospitals is anything to be proud of.

I tried to find out what more up to date information but the most recent I found was from the beginning of May when various newspapers were predicting their imminent closure.
It seems to me that it was a PR stunt by an incompetent government.

ladymuck Wed 17-Jun-20 11:06:51

You are right dragonfly. Unfortunately, those who do express a bit of national patriotism are immediately labelled 'far-right'. Lack of pride shows itself in so many ways..dropping litter, allowing dogs to foul's all part of the same thing.

What is occurring at present is partly intended to demoralise us even further..prompting shame and regret. Yes, we did colonise other countries, but so did other Europeans. Let's not pretend that those countries didn't benefit from Western influence.

timetogo2016 Wed 17-Jun-20 11:16:13

What i meant paddyanne was how we as individuals have coped with being locked in our home.
And i agree with your comment on BJ.

geekesse Wed 17-Jun-20 11:46:46

I don’t think ‘pride’ is ever appropriate when it comes to one’s country. It’s not unreasonable to feel pride in something one has achieved personally, or had a large personal part in, but taking pride in one’s nation is meaningless. For most people, their national identity is merely the result of an accident of birth and/or upbringing. One could hardly claim to be ‘proud’ to have been born in xyz hospital, or by Caesarian section, or weighing seven pounds, or of living in Canterbury, or growing up in the sixties, or some such.

varian Wed 17-Jun-20 12:01:41

Most other European countries have functioning democracies. They use PR systems for elections, which mean that your vote is more likely to count. Elections often result in coalition governments which actually represent the majority of the electorate . More voters feel have a stake in national decision making.

The UK by contrast has a scandalously undemocratic FPTP voting system which means most people feel that their vote does not count. A party supported only by a minority of voters can gain a huge majority in the HoC and in effect run as a dictatorship for five years.

Most voters feel alienated from the way that the country is run and will criticise the government, which is not neccesarily the same as criticising the country, especially when we have such an incompetent government, but many British people find difficult to feel pride in the UK, in spite of admiring the work of many good British people, such as the experts, previously mocked and derided by Johnson and his Vote Leave friends.

Juliet27 Wed 17-Jun-20 12:11:44

Sadly, so many people don’t even seem to take a pride in themselves!

Jabberwok Wed 17-Jun-20 12:19:05

You can, if allowed,be proud of your country's achievements! Our Police Force, our armed forces, (didn't those Welsh Guards look absolutely splendid, putting on such a fantastic show) our Queen, our medical achievements, our scientific breakthroughs, shipbuilding and many other things down the ages. All European countries had colonies, the French still do! Somehow they don't seem to count,but we have to constantly apologise! How many of us expect modern Germans to constantly apologise, or blame them for Hitler? I know I don't and never have! We've poured more money into our former colonies than any other European country but still it's not enough even though a good proportion of that money has been siphoned off to fill Despots pockets! Malawi is marginally poorer than when we left! How can this be? I'm sure someone will tell me that it's our fault!!