Why aren't we proud anymore?

We've had lots of wonderful holidays in Scotland and Wales, and have only ever experienced kindness, friendliness and great hospitality, never a hint of prejudice. Admittedly it was a long time ago and perhaps things are different now.

BTW I’m in awe of your memory and your ability to use GN’s search facility

What I’m not proud of is the exceptionalism- e.g. we British are best because....why aren’t we glad that lots of countries are beautiful, are clean, have great art, culture, history, food whatever. We are not the best in the world at lots of things - does that matter? Why can’t other countries shine too? Take pride in your own achievements, look after your environment , surely that is better than waving a flag and boasting about your own greatness, it’s that belief in superiority which has led to wars and conflicts.

That was a brilliant post Elegran and I too am glad to be British for all those reasons you state.
I’m just not proud, though.
There’s a difference.

A few of my points are under threat at the moment.

Nearly five years ago, someone ( soontobe, actually) started a thread with the title "I am Glad to be British because" www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1219455-I-am-glad-to-be-British-because

Reading through it, I see some familiar names and some from Memory Lane. I also see that the tendency to argue over how many angels can stand on the head of a pin and how unfair it is to devils that only angels get a mention was just as much in evidence then as now.

I found what I was looking for - my post from that thread. It reads:-
"Returning to the original post (which was, in case anyone had forgotten, "I am glad to be British because . . .")
This is where I was born, and where many generations of my family were born, and it is my home.
This is where my children were born, and my grandchildren, and it is their home.
This is where modern democracy was forged, and it is still a stronghold of democracy, where we are not imprisoned for disagreeing with the government of the day and voting against it.
This is a country where it is not obligatory to belong to one religion or one political party, or to face ostracism, or worse, for being different.
This is a country where in court one is innocent until proved guilty, not the other way round.
It is not necessary to be rich to have the necessities of life.
Education is available to all.
Healthcare is available to all.
Most people are tolerant and polite.
The climate is neither extremely hot nor extremely cold, floods are rare, earthquakes are small.
The countryside is beautiful and varied. There are wildernesses and manicured parks, sandy beaches and towering cliffs, forets and flower-beds.
There are theatres, concert halls, museums, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, stately homes, palaces, traditions, ceremonies, pageant.
Our national cuisine has elements from all over the world.
People from all origins, all religions or none, all cultures, all colours, live mostly in harmony."

Cherrytree My wonerful old headmaster insisted that we should all take pride in our school work and our appearance.

‘Taking pride‘ in your work or your appearance is usually taken to mean striving for excellence, or at least doing the very best of which you’re capable, so that’s something any headteacher would hope that his or her pupils would do.

That’s a far cry from congratulating oneself on something for which you have had to make absolutely no effort to achieve.

I think it's really sad we don't celebrate our national days, like so many other countries. We have in the past had Scandinavian young people staying with us, and they all celebrate and are proud of their country, it is a special day for them even when abroad. It must be something the schools encourage.

Personally I feel proud of all our 4 united countries, they all have wonderful varied attributes which we should all celebrate and be proud to be a part of. Surely if it was encouraged in schools we would have more of a sense of unity and pride in our country.

Farnorth Sadily Ì think you are right.
My children were sometimes referred to as wee sassanachs, by someone in a supposedly jokey way

Historically Sasssanach was a Saxon.

Cherrytree59 you posted "The Nightingale hospitals were/are our insurance policy." I couldn't agree more! When they were commissioned, it was expected that they could be overflowing within weeks - no-one knew what course the virus would take (and they still don't! Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't use it until you are well past the end of an event)

What if the prognosis had been right, and the corridors of the Nightingale hospitals had been lined with patients on trolleys because the wards were full of patients on ventilators ? What if someone had said when they were proposed, "Nah! we won't need them, Don't waste the money," and there had been NO Nightingale hospitals to take the avalanche of very sick patients?

Everyone has insurance for their car, their house, their valuables, even for veterinary treatment for their pet. If you don't write off your car next year, if a plane doesn't crash into your roof, if no-one steals your diamonds, if you don't have to pay thousands for essential surgery to your do, will you reckon the policy was a waste of money, so you won't do it next year? Or will you pay for it anyway because it is your insurance ?

Here’s a little spot of cheer for you, OP.
Yesterday I was talking to a Swedish friend who lived and worked here for over 20 years, but returned to Sweden a few years ago.

Not for the first time she was telling me at length about yet another bureaucratic/customer services fiasco, how it takes ages to get anything done, endless muddle, nobody ringing back after they’d promised to, and never anyone saying sorry for all the time, faff and frustration.
‘You’re so lucky in England!’
Those were her exact words.

I agree with what you say, though. It seems to have become almost shameful - especially among the more liberal minded middle classes - to say anything good or appreciative, let alone proud! about the U.K., or more particularly England - and anyone who does is liable to be called a Little Englander - an expression I loathe.

The same people who like to talk us down so often gush about virtually everything in other European countries - and very conveniently ignore anything that doesn’t ‘fit’.

Having said that, I have heard the odd French person slagging off their own country, particularly re the tiresomely predictable rail and air traffic control strikes in summer.
And two young Italians - one a long term bf of a dd, the other a colleague of dh, have been very vociferous about a) corrupt government, b) the impossibility of getting a good job, regardless of qualifications, unless you know someone, and c) the fact that you’re judged in the workplace by your clothes, which must be designer - colleagues will size up the cost of everything you have on, ‘even your belt’.

Having heard this from one, I later asked the other whether it was really true. ‘Oh, yes, absolutely.’

It's healthy to take pride in what you have, what you are, and so on.

I'm eternally grateful to live somewhere I have autonomy as a single woman.

Cherrytree59 they'd mean it in the same way as people who say 'I don't think of you as black.'
i.e. showing their prejudice, while thinking they are giving a compliment.

Lucca You are absolutely right about the theatre. Also film production, dance, art and music. Amongst the best, if not the best, in the world. Sadly many people, including the government, forget about those.

The Welsh and the Scots are proud of their heritage but they seem not to be aware that us English are also aware of them too.

A few years ago we went on holiday with a small tour company, based in Scotland. Most of the other people were from Scotland. We started talking to them about Charles Rennie Mackintosh and they were surprised that we'd heard of him. They were even more surprised when we told them about a visit that we'd made in the late 60s to Glasgow School of Art. Most of the Mackintosh stuff and pieces from the his contemporaries were stuffed into a store room. However, the lady that showed us around took us to the store room where the plan chests were full of his water colours and furniture was piled up. They genuinely thought that he was unknown in England.

We have a book of his water colours which we showed to a French friend who came from Collioure where CRM spent a few years. She looked at these. admired them and then said "he is English?" We explained that he was a Scot and she was still surprised.

If you consider the British artists of the latter half of the 20th century, our artists are much better than those of say France of the same period but they are generally unknown in France.

We really should be promoting the arts more than we do but sadly they are thought to be elitist by man.

dragonfly46 I can't see that we've got much to be proud of, (historically or presently) although, of course, something can always be dredged up found if we look hard enough!

With over 63,000 excess deaths (so far) we have a lot to criticise, though. Maybe we should be proud of being good critics, vitally needed for positive change.

Dragonfly Did they mean that you didn't have an English accent and thought you were from another country ( maybe Holland)?
Or that you had developed a good Scottish twang?

Well Janeainsworth then I am an almighty big sinner.

My wonerful old headmaster insisted that we should all take pride in our school work and our appearance.

I am proud of our commonwealth friends that we all came together regardless of colour or race to fight and defeat Hitler when other countries had been overrun. I am proud that we stood by our word to help Belgium in WW1 and Poland in WW2. I am proud of our NHS and all its workers who have been dedicated and brave as I knew they would be. I am proud of young men like Marcus Rashford who stand up to help children have a decent meal. I am proud of so many people who have volunteered and helped during the pandemic. I am proud of what our scientists have achieved. I am proud that we are a resilient nation with people like Colonel Sir Captain Tom And others like the little disabled boy who wanted to make a difference and did.

It's the very evident division that has been forced upon us. We're now the United States of Britain !

For quite some time, we have been the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - four countries in all.

Perhaps posters could refer to being proud of the kingdom rather than the country, if they do indeed mean the UK?

Not keen on the being proud to be.... bit but I certainly would not downplay the good things about the UK. Our theatre tradition for example our cultural heritage, our love of animals.
It is also not true that other countries don’t criticise themselves or certain national characteristics , they certainly do in Italy and combine it with justifiable praise for the beauty of their country and their artistic heritage.

Speaking of " pride " in the latest breakthrough of a treatment towards this virus, I posted, in March, that it would be a good idea to use Ventolin inhalers or similar for those who were struggling to breathe, the main ingredient being Albuterol to help the airways, also taken in tablet form for immediate release. Even intramuscularly.

Those who use a purple inhaler ( Fostair ) will find that it contains a steroid---whereas Albuterol doesn't but would be fine to use at the onset before breathing becomes more difficult. Fostair has been out a long time.

Pride is not a sin Well according to Christian belief, it still is, Cherrytree.

Thankyou Davidhs for your clear unbiased explanation. Cherrytree59, really good to read your post. You're so right, all 4 nations do have a lot to proud of both individually and collectively. Nothing is perfect but most of us do our best!
Amen to that dragonfly46!?

I’m proud to be British, we can’t be doing too much wrong or we would not have a queue of migrants wanting to get in. There is no doubt that the current issues should have been handled better, our government is at least as democratic as any other and corruption free. It is stable and not beset by continual changes like Italy and Australia, it’s not violent with extreme political divides like USA.

I’ve travelled widely and there is nowhere else better, although I like rural France and NZ is nice for a 3 week holiday I couldnt live there.

You have to be careful nowadays, being proud of Britain can be misinterpreted as being racist I am proud to be english but I'm not against any other nationality. I welcome diversity