Infected, leaderless. How Boris Johnson’s brush with death revealed a lethal amateurism at the heart of government

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Calendargirl, who has said they wished him ill? A few of us have said we thought he wasn't as ill as it was made out. Also your post attaching Paddyanne was out of order, its not alright to call someone bitter etc on GN.

paddyanne Boris's illness was discussed at length on other threads and it was quite upsetting to hear nasty remarks like yours that insinuated that the doctors and nurses at St Thomas's Hospital were lying.
A disgraceful slur on the NHS staff at that excellent hospital, especially those in the ICU where one of my relatives works and where they have dealt professionally with one crisis after another in recent years.

I do think Boris should have stood down whilst he was ill and for some time afterwards to recover; we don't have a Deputy PM at the moment to take over and the whole thing has become a shambles.

You obviously haven’t read all of this post Barmeyoldbat,

Go back to the beginning, and I think if you read Paddyanne’s post, you will see she certainly did ‘wish him ill’ amongst other things.

Which is why I (and others) think how nasty it was!

We weren't leaderless, though.
There was Cummings, plugging the gap and probably terrifying everyone into obedience yet above the rules himself.

Barmeyoldbat

Calendargirl, who has said they wished him ill? A few of us have said we thought he wasn't as ill as it was made out. Also your post attaching Paddyanne was out of order, its not alright to call someone bitter etc on GN.

Tbe fair, I don't think Calendargirl called paddyann herself bitter.

Perhaps read paddyann's post again, barmeyoldbat.

I am certainly bitter at yet another attack on the staff of St Thomas's.

Some posts are predictable and quite vicious, which I suspect deters other GN members from contributing to political threads.

The script is in the link too if you prefer to read it.

I am fascinated to find no one can be bothered to listen to the essay - it's really not that difficult - but you still believe you are commenting on what the post is about as set out in the OP.

GN seems overrun with those who care nothing about knowledge only about being angry and expressing that angry opinion which is not based in anyway on what the thread puts forward.

Sad people. Lazy people - I'm dyslexic and I read what you write or link before I comment - and unknowledgeable people. Very, very sad to think this is the representation of older people in our society.

I read it (quickly, I admit)

2 points:

1) The only people who know the detail of Johnson's illness and how close he was, or not, to death's door are the doctors and nurses who treated him and Johnson himself. In the forst instance, the medical and nursing staff, as I pointed out in a previous post, cannot give any detail because it would be breaching patient confidentiality and highly unprofessional. If someone can cite an instance of any of them disclosing any details of his illness I would be very surprised. Paddyanne is not saying that they're lying because they haven't said anything which could be construed as a lie.

One of Boris’ nurses did appear on the news when she was back in New Zealand, expressing her surprise that she and a colleague had been specifically mentioned and thanked by him. She did not comment on his illness, except to say she nursed him as she would have done any patient.
Absolutely correct of her. It gives nothing away at all.

All the rest depends on the word of a known habitual liar and his supporters, and speculation. People are at perfect liberty to draw conclusions from what is out in the public domain. Paddyanne is not the only person to doubt the severity of Johnson's illness.

2) We've most of us known Paddyanne for quite some time and we know that she is forthright and passionate in what she says.

If people don't like it I think they should just move on past her posts unless they feel they want to reply to any point she's made. Making personal attacks is not, I understand from the moderators, in the spirit of these forums. But it doesn't stop people piling in to lecture her about what she says in a way which I don't think they would do to anyone in real life. It's playground behaviour IMO.

who has said they wished him ill?

Paddyanne did say that, Barmeyoldbat. At least she's honest about what she thinks.

I haven't listened to the OP's audio yet but I absolutely agree with Gagajo. The criticisms I make of BJ are made with regret, not because I just want to have a go.

When BJ was Mayor of London he assembled a team of deputies around him who did their jobs well and he made sure he took all the credit. He employs the same methods and person now who was in charge of communications when he was Mayor.

The Greater London Authority has a committee structure which scrutinises the Mayor's decisions and invited him to answer questions about the garden bridge (another vanity project). He refused to attend for as long as he could and only did so eventually when he was summoned to do so. Why? What was he afraid of? I think he was afraid of transparency and scrutiny and doesn't like to be held accountable for anything.

He is demonstrating these traits all over again as PM - leaving others to run things (eg Dominic Cummings), laziness (why 2 weeks off in February?) inability to master detail (eg claimed that no other country had an effective track and trace system), and a resentment of being questioned and held to account (eg trying to ask the Leader of the Opposition to answer a question rather than answer the one he was asked). He had completely forgotten what Prime Minister's Questions (PMQs) is for until it was pointed out to him! PMQs are not the same as the Oxford University Debating Club!

He has no leadership qualities because he won't take unpopular decisions which, IMHO, has delayed the UK's response to the virus (eg not introducing quarantine at UK airports until June when it should have been introduced in February) and may lead to a second wave (though I hope not). He will only issue guidance and thinks it's enough to ask people to use their common sense. We've seen what that has led to - overcrowded beaches for a start. Where is the "world beating" track and trace system he promised? Why did it have to be world beating anyway - simply one that works would do.

He recently accused seaside MPs of not having any guts when it's he who hasn't got the guts to enforce social distancing by law. Even his fellow MPs are said to be critical of him.

He may have liked the idea of being PM but from what we've seen so far he can't cut it. It requires hard work and a preparedness to attend to detail, which he is too lazy for. He should go back to journalism and take his hyperbole with him. After all, he knows from experience that when you're a journo you can write any old rubbish and with a compliant editor (as his former editor Max Hastings regretfully acknowledged) you are unlikely to be challenged.

I realise all this will upset the BJ fan club on here! I have given real-life examples of his antics - not just given an opinion. Others who disagree with me can give their own examples of why I am plain wrong.

MaizieD

^So the medical staff who looked after BJ are lying are they paddyanne?^

I don't think the medical staff have said anything at all about Johnson's illness. It would have been highly unprofessional if they had because they would have breached patient confidentiality.Which is extremely serious.

So Paddy-Anne is free to speculate as she likes. Lots of people share her views, they're just not in 'Boris bubbles'.

And it would be good if people refrained from making personal attacks on her. Perhaps they've no idea how spiteful and petty it looks.

Now you are making yourself look as ridiculous as Paddyanne
Johnson’s nurse from ICU did comment ....after he told the press how amazing she had been, she was from NZ.
Do you really think that if he hadn’t been in ICU it would be kept quiet?! Conspiracy theorists on GN make my jaw drop at times.

Well written, Ramblingrose.
Does anyone perhaps want to debate the comments she has made?
Following with interest.

MaizieD there is a transcript further down on the page linked to.

FarNorth

MaizieD there is a transcript further down on the page linked to.

Where Boris's illness is discussed.

paddyanne can speculate all she likes (and does) about Boris's illness and, no the staff at St Thomas's cannot discuss his stay there for reasons of patient confidentiality.

But no ICU in the country, let alone at that excellent hospital, would keep a patient in ICU taking up a valuable and desperately needed bed, just to collude with a politician and keep him out of the limelight for a couple of weeks.

Anyone who thinks that must be deluded.

And again, how dare you be rich the reputations of the staff of St Thomas's paddyann.
But such is your hatred that you will trample the reputation of these medical staff in order to try to validate your opinions.

Not be rich

That was autocorrect taking charge.

besmirch

My post is not a defence of Boris before anyone starts posting that.
It is a defence of the staff at St Thomas's
I also believe that Boris was very ill but did not, in the end, need intubation. He came back too soon. Running two weeks afterwards, if he did do that, was foolish and proved nothing.
He should have appointed a deputy, one person to take charge instead of a succession of ministers.

We could have had Rees-Mogg!

I understood that The Home Secretary was the designated Deputy for the PM.

The appropriate Ministers took care of their own briefs

I will not apologise for being a Conservative, but would like to point out that I am not a Boris Johnson Fan

Ggumteenth this is very interesting. I have read it all although it was quite long. Paddyann and others you really should read it too even if you hate Boris Johnson or especially if you do. It is quite clear that BJ did have the virus and was in a perilous state. I well remember that panic struck look on Raab’s face as he faced the nation and tried to play it down. The thing is it is not so much about BJ as about the rocky state of the government.

OK went back ad had another read of Paddannes comments, this time with my glasses on, which I am always forgetting where they are. Anyway yes she did say she wished him ill, as probably many people secretly think, but that is not a reason for others to attack her in the way they did. The rest of my statement stands and it is against Boris not the hospital. Ramblingrose you posted an excellent comment.

That was my take on it Avalon. It is this lack of professionalism that seems to be the issue. If any government had been in power we do not seem to have the professional systems to deal with real life incidents.

I read it, too, GGumpteenth (thanks to Calli for pointing out the link). It was quite frightening, really.

But notable that there was little reference to the general ill preparedness that happened long before Johnson was ill.

Also, height of the panic seemed to be when Cummings was missing as well...

And, although d'Ancona seems to have personal liking for Johnson, he's got the measure of the hopeless ministers..

Thanks to those who have posted that they liked my post.

So often I have seen some really nasty responses to others' posts on this forum which are just personal insults.

I am not surprised that some people think that the response so far by the UK Government to the coronavirus outbreak looks unprofessional - that is because it has been so shambolic.

Examples include the failure to impose quarantine early enough on those returning in February from skiing trips to Northern Italy and other countries when it was known that virus cases were increasing there and in other countries (oddly only the cruise ship holiday makers were quarantined!), Matt Hancock's lies about protecting care homes while he stood by as the NHS evicted infected people in hospital to care homes without waiting for their test results, the selective data on the number of cases and deaths at the start until it was exposed that the data was understating the true figures because it excluded deaths in care homes and other settings (since addressed).

This Government does not want to be told by "professionals" what to do and how to do it. They also hate Government interventions - even in the case of public health! Astonishing! ,

They have showcased the professionals (the main professional advisers are the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser) in their daily briefings (thankfully at an end) but that does not mean that they have always taken their advice. Now one of them is expressing concerns about a second wave because he has seen that people don't care about social distancing and would prefer to drive hundreds of miles on a crowded beach to become infected and infect others.

Before anyone complains that hindsight is a wonderful thing they should look at how other countries have managed their response to the virus so far without the benefit of hindsight and see how much better they have done than us.

I suspect that Boris Johnson doesn't like looking at what other countries have done because he knows that the comparison will be unfavourable.