Johnson and a new deal

As I understand it Furret, it's just the a reiteration of the budget. That wasn't even enough then to live up to lying toad Johnson's false promises.

growstuff

Other posters on this thread are just beneath contempt.

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Not much you can say in answer to that Lemon!!! Perhaps best to leave the far left to their intolerant selves and find somewhere else to chat in a more user friendly environment!?

Jabberwok

Not much you can say in answer to that Lemon!!! Perhaps best to leave the far left to their intolerant selves and find somewhere else to chat in a more user friendly environment!?

I've heard that a site called "Parler" might suit you.

?????!!

growstuff

Jabberwok

Not much you can say in answer to that Lemon!!! Perhaps best to leave the far left to their intolerant selves and find somewhere else to chat in a more user friendly environment!?

I've heard that a site called "Parler" might suit you.

Was just about to suggest that.....

With the number of redundancies now being announced in the UK and throughout the world all governments, if they wish to survive, will have to bring forward large-scale measures to boost economies.

Unemployment, if it becomes large enough, can "feed on itself" and in that create further unemployment to the detriment of ALL. Certainly, Britain is now at a crucial stage in this crisis both in terms of the health situation and the economic situation.

If Johnson brings forward stimulus measures on terms of those brought forward in Britain at the conclusion of the second world war then the United Kingdom may well have a good future in the coming years.

I personally do not care if such measures come from the left in politics or the right, as long as those measures come into being. That is thinking of those with families and the young people of Great Britain and not playing politics for the sake of maintaining a one-party political stance.

grandad I agree.

However, given that many Tories are pathologically against Keynesianism, I frankly don’t hold out much hope.

The much lauded “new deal” amounted to nothing. One can only hope that the announcement by Sunak will bring more optimism.

I am somewhat with your train of thought Whitewave but, given that the current leader of the Tories is a pathological liar it is always going to be difficult to know just what they are doing.

Their "new" spending is very little and often has been already committed and nothing like what Churchill was prepared to spend to win the war or Roosevelt to win against depression.

Without that sort of thinking - and will we really get it from the Tories? - I see very difficult days ahead.

All the nonsense about people being "far-left" on here is just a cover-up for the selfishness and lack of thinking from those who just want things to be comfortable for themselves. These people are nativists and bullies in the most part and I have little sympathy for them but a great deal for those who will be harmed by their actions.

I agree, it doesn't matter which party does it but we need our economy boosted and health services supported.

My fear is that our current government will continue its smoke and mirrors approach. I listened to all of Johnsons speech on Tuesday and felt a degree of hope. Then the analysis came which confirmed how little in real terms is being committed. Alongside that, the Demonic suggestion that our planning laws need to go. We may have too much bureaucracy but we don't want people throwing up a wooden shed in their back garden in London for example, so it can be rented out to people because there's no social housing.

Whitewavemark2

grandad I agree.

However, given that many Tories are pathologically against Keynesianism, I frankly don’t hold out much hope.

The much lauded “new deal” amounted to nothing. One can only hope that the announcement by Sunak will bring more optimism.

It would be a great surprise if this Johnson administration did bring forward an economic stimulus of the size that is required. However, the Churchill administration of 1950-1955 did continue the large scale spending plans of the predecessor Atlee government until midterm, so you never know?

That stated Whitewavemark2, I live in no great hopes, but, let's wait and see.

My fear is that our current government will continue its smoke and mirrors approach.

I'm afraid it's the nature of the beast. That is not to say the Tories couldn't do it but I feel it's very unlikely under Johnson and Cummings. It seems they are programmed to what they think is "being clever". People do wake up to these things though. Let's just hope it's before they destroy too much and too many people.

The BBC fact checked the 'new' spending claims made in Johnson's speech.

Most of it is money already announced.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/53236921

I think the 'new deal' boils down to the simple but worrying fact that Boris Johnson is now bored with the virus and wants to talk about something else. 'Build, build, build' is just the kind of slogan he likes - 'Oh, look at me, oh look at me wearing a hard hat and driving a bulldozer'.
And to the even more worrying fact that no one (apparently) dared tell him that £5bn would fool very few people. And that even in these days of true equality we can't all be bricklayers.

I am no economist but I think this argument runs deep and departs far from the OP.
I thought that those of us who benefited from 'free', dentistry, medical prescriptions, higher education, better local amenities paid a higher proportion of our income in taxes? We also paid much more for 'consumer durables' (remember 'saving up' for a dishwasher or a freezer?) but less for food.

winterwhite, I feel that you have "hit the nail on the head" in your post @09:52 today.

For many years now Governments have carried the message that tax is "a bad thing". However, tax, when spent wisely on infrastructure projects, can be to the benefit of all in any society.

The above produces employment and in that those people spend and an overall lift in the economy is gained for both private commercial enterprise and the socially owned side of the economy.

The above is a message that has been very much played down and forgotten in Britain for many decades.

www.facebook.com/BBCOne/videos/2684761831795745

The above is from Years and Years. Very prescient.

I thought that those of us who benefited from 'free', dentistry, medical prescriptions, higher education, better local amenities paid a higher proportion of our income in taxes?

As taxation doesn't fund state spending that is really irrelevant, winterwhite. We got it free because the government subscribed to the idea that it was a Good Thing to keep its citizens healthy and well educated.

We also paid much more for 'consumer durables' (remember 'saving up' for a dishwasher or a freezer?) but less for food.

And, if we're talking of the 70s just about the only way you could buy on 'credit' was through HP, which an awful lot of people didn't like at all. I recall the first credit cards were introduced in the early 70s, take up slow and subject to checks. So really, one had very little option but to save up for major purchases. The tax cuts Thatcher made were mostly in favour of the rich. By the time you got down to lower incomes a cut of, say, 2% of tax didn't amount to anything when it was 2% of not very much. So that didn't help.

This government seem to feel that they can only bring about what they want by destroying the system that runs it (government) and remaking it. Johnson seems to be prepared to tear it limb from limb but how, if this is happening, can there be a launch of radical new policy?

They have my sympathy to some extent. Anything as large as government can get stuck in its ways and not move forward. Part of the idea is to set up something like Tony Blair's delivery unit. It is thought that Covid may give this a better chance of success. We tend to get great growth from a crisis as we do during and after wars and this crisis has certainly shown flaws in the current system. A Covid enquiry will not look good and the government will want to show they have seen it, and have dealt with or are dealing with the problem.

Johnson's personal experience must influence the wish to do better, improve the system, etc., but I cannot get away from wondering if he has enough substance to do it. They will have learned a great deal but I just remember that the scorpion said the fox "it is my nature" as that very nature killed them both.

BJ has absolutely no substance GG, no convictions, no beliefs, only an excess of vanity to the point of narcicism .