Epstein/Maxwell/Prin ce Andrew

Strictly speaking, the word paedophilia refers to children below the age of puberty, so tickingbird is right.

Is this really how you want to discuss these women and girls.

The attitude of some posters towards the victims of Epstein is shocking.

So you'd be intensely relaxed if it were your 13 or 14 year old DGD, then tickingbird and Grandma70s?

Doubtful Callistemon; that probably only applies to "other's teenagers". Like they're not all vulnerable and at risk.

Technically it is hebephilia, but, as long as it's someone else's DD or DGD it's OK.

Nobody’s being relaxed about it. It’s stating fact. Paedophilia is sex with pre pubescent children. It’s sleazy behaviour and if the girls are underage it’s criminal but it’s not paedophilia.

It is hebephilia as I stated.

Yes, it is a criminal offence.

tinkingbird, your comments have just made me be a little bit sick in my mouth
I have granddaughters
Your attitude to young girls is appalling

sleazy

Words fail me

You’re unreal. If men are indulging in sexual relations with underage girls it’s criminal. If they’re doing the same with girls above the age of consent and the men are considerably older it’s sleazy. Nothing appalling about my attitude. Please get a grip.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Which comments do you find unreal?
I'm just going to leave this here, that girls, women, being coerced into having sex is wrong
I am not judge and jury here, I don't know what PA did or didn't do, but surely any reasonable person would question why a young girl was in the company of a middle aged couple. ..

I was merely stating the meaning of the word paedophilia, because it irritates me to see words misused. I was not making moral judgements of any sort.

Why do some women hate other women so much?

Do they suzie we obviously mixed in different circles

Annie, we're clearly discussing the comments on this thread
To suggest otherwise is disingenuous

these youngsters were lured in with the chance of holiday work and maybe getting a useful reference from influential people for their future careers. a job opportunity.
weinsteins victims were over 18 remember. or do some on here say that was all their fault too, for having loose morals/ knowing what they were getting into.
no wonder victims, of whatever age, find it so daunting to extricate themselves or report what is going on.
i can hardly believe some of these attitudes. after all that we now know, saville, weinstein, etc etc.
and this from women, GMs.
let's hope none of your relatives ever try to share anything difficult with you.
talk about victim blaming.

www.phillymag.com/news/2017/03/16/laura-goldman-stalker-white-house-press-pool/

re Maxwell's pal, laura goldman, another very flakey character.
extortion, harassment, stalking, threats to kill including against a probation officer and a judge.
guess it figures. birds of a feather...

I can't help thinking about the things Jimmy Saville got up to and the girls who weren't believed or were silenced while he was alive. There are parallels here I believe. Powerful individuals exploiting vulnerable girls.

Trisher they're the women who thought those under age girls were sex workers ...not abused .I suppose being plied with alcohol and drugs is why they believed that .The very fact they were under age made it ABUSE

I suppose it is part of our culture that some people consider everything has a price and that somehow if girls are given gifts or treats then the sexual contact cannot be abuse. Imagine if we applied that same standard to other relationships, would we allow a man to mistreat his wife because he gave her money or expensive gifts afterwards? The fact is of course that the gifts and treats are part of the process of controlling the girls and steadily eroding their confidence so they become more amenable.

Some posters appear to have a very warped view about what is acceptable.

These children and young women although appearing sexually mature are still waiting for psychological maturation. Anyone who has had anything to do with the young adult will know how vulnerable they are and how easily controlled and manipulated, particularly those from difficult backgrounds.

Epstein or Maxwell trawled the poor streets of Florida, (anyone who has been there will be aware of the poverty in some areas,) and he fed off these young girls hopes and aspirations to better themselves. Epstein operated by promising them a better life with education, certificates etc. All these things would be theirs if they complied with the sexual requirements of Epstein and his friends like Andrew Windsor. They were groomed as surely as any other child you hear about.
These girls were offered to Epstein’s friends, almost as casually as you were offer someone a drink.

These young girls were told that they would be employed to give Epstein a foot massage.

Epstein had it off to a fine art and with Maxwell’s assistance the girls were gradually drawn into acting as sex objects.

Every person interviewed by the police/FBI told the same story.

I accept the concern about the use of the word paedophile to describe men who abuse post pubescent children. I've used it to describe the abuse of pre-pubsecent children, infants and babies.
The criticism of the use of the word to describe Epstein and Maxwell was, imo, intended to diminish the concerns about child sexual exploitation, trafficking and abuse.