Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

Eloethan you missed out the main point I was making.

I am angry that the daughter of immigrants given permission to settle here has chosen to repay us by joining a terrorist organisation who hate everything we stand for.

It’s Shamima I am angry with rather than her parents, although of course it could be argued that they failed in their parental duty of care.

My humble apologies mumofmadboys. I confused Sharmima Begum with Sharmeena Begum being the girl who went ahead of the other three a few weeks earlier. She was also from the same school. Sorry, that'll teach me to read my phone when half asleep!

The British are soft. Give them a sob story and they will put aside any concerns about national security or justice. They are more concerned with their reputation for compassion.
That seems to be the message here. This girl has shown nothing but self-pity.....no sign of compassion for the innocent victims of Isis. When she first came to our attention, she seemed to expect the British to send in special agents and a helicopter to get her out of there. I don't doubt she expects us to pay her fare back to Britain.
She is a disgrace to her family and this country. If she is allowed to return, she should be immediately arrested and imprisoned.
However, I don't doubt she'll be treated as a celeb and some magazine will pay her a fortune for her story.

FoghornLeghorn

Isn’t it funny. I don’t visit here much and post even less but I could already accurately predict who the apologists on this thread would be. I wasn’t disappointed.

So glad that you weren’t ‘disappointed’ though you might want to read Lemongrove’s kind post before you get too euphoric.

I agree that terrorists should face the music; what worries me is that many won't . They will say that they didn't do anything/ didn't know what they were doing/ only went to help their fellow Muslims who were in need/ wanted to live according to Muslim rules or some such. Whether this young woman was groomed , I don't know, but I think half the problem is that a huge number of girls from certain communities are not allowed to behave in a manner that gives them any sense of 'growing up'. They aren't allowed to go out with boys, or meet boys in any setting, they have very restricted social lives and often are firmly controlled to keep their 'family honour'. I have been told by Muslim men ' we marry our ladies off early' . Well feeling like a chattel, to be given away , or bought or sold is really unacceptable isn't it?
So going away to an Islamic state , finding yourself a husband and a way of life that seems exciting might be a way out . I don't know what was in their minds , but I wonder if, for some of them, the attraction was being allowed to to do things that they could not do in the UK . Of course, it didn't turn out the way they wanted , but these things rarely do. Instead of family elders controlling them , they ended up with a series of young men doing so. And living in a self made hell too.
She will return to the UK, she should face justice, I think she will spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder; someone will want to do her harm, and there will be more who will return and they will have done atrocities. We have a huge issue to contend with and I can see no way out of that.

We can’t just wash our hands of our responsibilities. I bet people think foreign born terrorists should be deported from the U.K. So a British born terrorist whatever we think of his/ her actions should be returned to face the music here.

Excellent post @ 01.34 Eloethan, brilliantly summarised.

I didnt know those bits of her life history Ellianne

Has it been mentioned her mother died of cancer in the January, her father remarried in the September and she left in the December? It must have been hard for her to cope with these life changes and it is likely she was searching for something she had lost. Those who groomed her would have been clever enough to play on this.

I had not heard of Mary Kaya or Tooba Gondal. Sally Jones was particularly notorious and I had heard of her.

The reason Shamima Begum has had so much coverage is because she and two other girls left home and flew to Syria and it was major news. They were all schoolgirls. I believe it is thought likely the other girls are dead. Begum is still only 20.

Kaya is in her fifties, Jones was in her late forties when she was killed and Tooba Gondal is 25. So not the same thing as being a possibly naive and impressionable schoolgirl who was groomed by adults.

JenniferEccles You express at your anger at her parents having been allowed to live here and to benefit from our NHS and free education.

A quote in Reni Eddo-Lodge's book "Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" seems appropriate in response to your comment:

"They are here because we were there".

We embarked upon a mission to colonise as much of the world as we possibly could whilst treating every indigenous person outrageously and exploiting each country's valuable resources. Wikipedia states:

"This entitlement (to residence and the right to apply for British citizenship) was given to all Citizens of the UK and Colonies as part of a wider initiative to preserve close relationships with white majority Dominions and Colonies and moderate nationalist attitudes within the Commonwealth".

So it appears that, surprise surprise, the British government didn't formulate this policy for altruistic reasons but to shore up power and control over overseas lands. An impression was created that Britain welcomed the incomers. That is why many immigrants from the colonies thought of England, in particular, as "The Mother Country". They were in for a rude awakening.

We also have some extreme right wing white terrorists in this country. Do you feel as strongly that their parents should be grateful for any health care or education that the family received and that such terrorists should also lose their citizenship - and be deported to where?

It also appears to have escaped your notice that large parts of our health and welfare system are dependent on people from other countries.

Callistemon she is none of those things. She was a child who was groomed and enlisted into a war. The UN says that children under 18 cannot give consent to their recruitment and that it is abuse. Subsequently she became part of that war. Children are badly affected by the violence they witness and exhibit inabilities to show emotions or to empathise. The damage they suffer can be lessened by returning them asap to a supportive community which of course hasn't happened.

I am undecided how I feel about this.

Begum was curiously unfazed about seeing severed heads in buckets, uncaring about the rape and murder of Yazidi women and little girls and shows no remorse for her part in any of these atrocities, including sewing people into suicide belts.

Was she a naive young girl, looking for excitement, or is she intrinsically evil? Some people are as history has shown us.

I thought it might be to move the debate forward.

Apologists? Who has approved of her actions? No one.

Galaxy

And what does that prove, I could also predict who would want to bar her from the country. How does that get us anywhere.

Doesn’t prove anything. It’s a comment. That’s the purpose of these fora - to comment.

And what does that prove, I could also predict who would want to bar her from the country. How does that get us anywhere.

Isn’t it funny. I don’t visit here much and post even less but I could already accurately predict who the apologists on this thread would be. I wasn’t disappointed.

changes depending on the colour of their skin. The hypocrisy is massive.

And so is the ignorance of that statement.

Mary Kaya - She was found guilty after a trial of dissemination of a terrorist publication likely to encourage people to participate in terrorism. Ethnicity not that it should matter Caucasian.

Sally Jones - she recruited and propagandised for ISIS. Ethnicity not that it should matter Caucasian.

Tooba Gondal - used social media to urge “sisters” to join her in the terrorist group’s strongholds, while celebrating terror attacks and condemning the “kuffar” [disbelievers]. Ethnicity--not that it should matter-- French Asian.

At least 145 British women who travelled to Iraq and Syria under ISIS, many of those who survived air strikes, famine and being killed in warfare, are still held in camps in Syria. They are of all ethnicities and ages and most of them want to come back to the UK.

A very silly comparison, Biba70. The young women allegedly groomed by men, were not vowing allegiance to a murderous regime committed to destroying those they believe to be infidels.
Hair and skin colour has nothing to do with it, and for what it is worth I don't have a great deal of sympathy for them either.

Amazing how the empathy and care shown to young women, girls, who were 'groomed' by men - changes depending on the colour of their skin. The hypocrisy is massive.

Amazing how the empathy and care shown to young women, girls, who were 'groomed' by men - changes depending on the colour of their skin. The hypocrisy is massive.

My GGD is taught differently Dinahmo , such as being taught to love and not kill. Most importantly she's not influenced nor brainwashed in any way. This is the difference.

Would you turn a hair if you looked at a severed human head in a bucket ? Because Shamima didn't. A killer wouldn't.

I also agree with lemon and kitty
She was fifteen, fifteen when she left Britain
She was a British citizen and should have been dealt with accordingly. Javid should not have taken her citizenship away
As soon as she was located in the refugee camp, she should have been repatriated, along with her baby. The authorities should have taken charge of Shamima and who knows, her baby may have lived with our medical care
But no, they were just left there, for the baby to die. How does an innocent child deserve that?
It should shame all of us

Eloethan said "she came across in a fairly blank way - and emotional detachment can be an indicator of trauma. She neither apologised for her actions nor displayed the sort of emotions that may have invited sympathy"

Also symptoms of a psychopath: pathological lying, cunning, manipulative, lack of remorse or guilt, shallow emotional range, callous and lack of empathy.

She also comes under the UN defnition of a child soldier
Definition of a child soldier
^A child associated with an armed force or armed group refers to any person below 18 years of age who is, or who has been, recruited or used by an armed force or armed group in any capacity, including but not limited to children, boys and girls, used as fighters, cooks, porters, spies or for sexual purposes.
(Source: Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict 2007)^
One of the acknowledged consequences of this involvement is that the young person does not display the usual emotions and may seem insensitive to atrocities.