Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

I was confused when I saw posts about her mother having died as well Callistemon. But when I checked back I found this from the BBC news website, 11th March 2019

The mother of Shamima Begum has urged the government to reconsider the decision to revoke her daughter's British citizenship.
A letter to the Home Office from the family's lawyer - written on behalf of Asma Begum - asked the Home Office to do so as "an act of mercy.

I then checked on Sharmeena Begum and found:
Sharmeena Begum was friends with Amira Abase, Shamima Begum (unrelated) and Kadiza Sultana. All four went to Bethnal Green Academy. She was raised by her mother until her father joined them in the UK in 2007. Begum's mother died, of cancer, in January 2014. Her father remarried in September 2014, and Begum left for Syria in December 2014

2 young women with very similar names, same school and both went to Syria to join ISIS.

Chewbacca

In regards to references as to the death of her mother, I think some people are confusing Shamima Begum with Sharmeema Begum. 2 separate women.

Oh, my source must have been wrong because I do know the difference between the two names. It gave this as a possible reason for her actions. Apologies for any confusion then.

A discussion as to whether she has legal aid now---unbelievable !
Legal aid was restricted some 16/17 years ago only becoming available to those with mental disabilities to give them an advantage for their futures.

It'll be interesting and also an annoyance to see what the end result will be.

I was under the impression that the age of criminal responsibility was 10 in the UK.

If this is so, she can and should be held accountable for her actions whist married to a Jihadi and herself a member of Daesh.

She'll probably write a book.

She’s coming back. I’m resigned to it.

No argument with you there Galaxy but she was a legally recognised adult when she continued to stay with, support and enable terrorism. And, as a legally recognised adult she still had no regrets about coming here.

It's all academic anyway; she's our problem.

To be clear , I think it's likely that she is a danger but we cant ignore the fact that she was a child, and that she is British and we therefore have to take responsibility.

Some of the misguided who went to join the death cult were traumatised by what was happening and soon realised their mistakes. Some managed to flee, others were caught and punished or murdered. I have sympathy for them as they were naive, simple minded or so idealistic they were blinded to the truth. This woman and others were quite happy to live with and indulge in their campaign of terror and only wish to return because it all went wrong and they don’t like the repercussions.

However, I believe she’s coming back and once here she’ll be provided for, so not a great deal more to say unless, of course, we have a referendum!!

Many of those in the Rochdale abuse case took a very long time to realise they were being abused they thought they were in relationships. It's very common in those who are groomed. It's part of the grooming process.

I have no idea of the sex of those who recruited her online, am not sure it matters. She was 15 and was recruited by adults. It is why we have the prevent guidance in this country because security services know that adults target children.

Galaxy

Yes trisher and if we decide that 15 is not a child it has to apply across the board. So some of those abused in Rochdale would not be classed as children. You cant change legal definitions to suit an individual case.

So, taking this at face value; SB was indisputably a minor when she stole a passport and went off to join ISIS with her 2 friends. It can, and will be argued, that she was below the age of criminal responsibility (assuming that criminal charges are sought) and that she didn't have full legal capacity to understand or appreciate the implications of her actions.

She willingly remained with ISIS, working as a Morality Police Officer and helping to stitch "volunteers" into suicide vests until she was captured at the age of 19. By then she was an adult. Her statement at that time was “I’m not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago,” she told me. “And I don’t regret coming here.” By the age of 18, she had full legal capacity to recognise what she had done and be responsible for it.

Between the age of 15 - 19, she had sufficient time, experience and evidence to come to a conclusion that she had made a massive error of judgement and to make some atonement for those mistakes. She chose not to until it became clear to her that her lack of recognition was impeding her desired wish to return to the UK.

Others have said that she was the victim of online recruitment by men and so deserves the same sympathy and empathy as the young girls who were groomed online by paedophiles. This contradicts reports that she has admitted that she was recruited by 2 women that I never met.

paddyanne her mother is alive. You’ve confused her with another radicalised girl with a similar name!

Was she under 16 when she married an IS fighter? Was she under 16 when she sewed suicide bombers into vests? Was she under 16 when she condoned the Manchester bombing? Was she under 16 when she condoned the selling of Yazidi women and children as sex slaves?

Her reactions in interviews leads me to believe she is still a supporter of IS and is following the instruction to return to her home country and continue the fight.

I have no doubt she will return to UK and once here will stay (which other country would accept her?).

Yes trisher and if we decide that 15 is not a child it has to apply across the board. So some of those abused in Rochdale would not be classed as children. You cant change legal definitions to suit an individual case.

As has already been said, there is confusion here. It was another girl called Begum who lost her mother. No relation to Shamina Begum at all but they were at the same school.

Callistemon the arguments about what someone is permitted to do at 15 are of interest, but the discussion about the British Army is another subject. She wasn't 16. She was 15. She couldn't have married. Had a man targetted her on line, groomed and persuaded her to have a sexual relationship, he would have been classified as a paedophile.
The castigation of her attitude and the way she presents made me remember the Rochdale abuse case and the fact that most of the girls could not be used to give evidence in court for similar reasons. It says a great deal I think about our attitudes and expectations of women.

An opinion poll would be interesting wouldn’t it?

Views on here are divided but I suspect a nationwide poll would be overwhelmingly against her return.

In regards to references as to the death of her mother, I think some people are confusing Shamima Begum with Sharmeema Begum. 2 separate women.

You cant change the definition of things to suit you. You need to explain to me in what way according to British law she wasnt a child. I coul

trisher

Chewbacca Oopsminty suggested that if she had remained in the UK she could have joined the British army after another 6 months. I was pointing out that that had nothing to do with her and that it should be a cause for concern that we still recruit children.

16 year olds are not able to join without parental consent and would not be sent to fight.
There would be more of an opportunity to learn a trade, get a full apprenticeship, than in many areas in the UK.

Possibly better than getting married at 16, also allowed!
Which is what Shamima Begum thought she was running away to do, as well as working from home in Syria, doing some sewing.

She was a child. Its not excusing. It's a statement of fact. Like saying that's the moon whilst pointing to the moon.

She was let down badly by everyone who SHOULD have been looking after her.After losing her mother the other "responsible adults" in her life should have stepped up and taken care of her,instead it appears she relied on the groomers to give her support !! Not what you would expect in a civilised country ...a dad who deserted her ,teachers who either coulnd't be bothered or just didn't care and social care department that seems to have been missing .ANY child losing a parent and being left to threir own devices will choose the person who makes them feel safe and important .

I've seen dozens of threads on here about how losing his mother damaged Prince Harry and the evidence is apparently in how he's behaving now ..yet HE had all the support from family ,teachers and I imagine health experts etc ..plus no financial difficulties .For heavens sake women ,have along hard look at yourselves this girl CHILD deserves some help not locked up.I truly despair at the attitudes of some on here

Chewbacca

SB was not academically slow, she was a straight A student with a bright future ahead of her, according to her school reports from Bethnall Green Academy.

I thought she was, too.

trisher

Chewbacca Oopsminty suggested that if she had remained in the UK she could have joined the British army after another 6 months. I was pointing out that that had nothing to do with her and that it should be a cause for concern that we still recruit children.

Actually, no trisher, that's not what I meant at all. As you know.

Chewbacca I was pointing out the girl had 6 months to go until she was 16 when she could legally do all manner of things and one was to join the army. Or vote under a Labour government. Or get married, with parental consent.

So just calling her a child is simplifying and excusing.