Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

I think many of the objections to her returning to appear at her appeal in person is that once she sets foot on UK soil it will be impossible to remove her.

IF she stands trial for any crime (and I think it is a big if) then once she has served any sentence she will be free to move around the country. I have asked, several times, would you be happy for her to wander around a shopping centre frequented by you, your children and your grandchildren? How about if she cultivated a friendship with your 13/14/15 year old grandchildren?

If her father resides in Pakistan, can he not make an application for her to live there with him, ensuring that he would be her guardian? Apart from a sister in the UK, I don't know if she has any other family members here to support her?

what do you mean by 'responsibility' - yes, he does- I'd say like any father, Christian, agnostic, or otherwise.

But in a traditional Muslim context, yes, you are right (same for a Jewish one, or many Christian ones too) ... so it is wonderful that he is able to get over those traditions to wish to pardon his daughter and have her back in the fold - despite the effect it will have for him in his community, no?

Has'nt her father any responsibility for her? I do not know very much about the culture of Moslems but understood that an unmarried woman had to live under the protection of either her father, or her brother, anything less would be perceived as bringing shame on the family name.

She was just 15 when she left with her two friends who have been killed. I see no reason why she can't come back to appeal against losing her citizenship, she will be arrested as soon as she sets foot on land so won't cause a threat. For goodness sake she was just 15 and we all know what many 15 year olds are like, they rebel but later when they have matured they change. so we should give her a chance.

Oh annepl I didn't realise what a hard time she had that year ... not as much as an ‘effect’ the victims and their families from the organisation she chose to go out and support though!

They had no choices to make. Harder, much harder, for them.

As applegran said she is entitled to justice.
I didn't realise what a hard time she had that year. Surely must have had an effect on her.

I see what you are saying Ellianne, the main focus for me is her age at the time. She was a child and I think she was groomed.
It's why we have the prevent programme because those working in the field know that children are targeted.

I was thinking of the religious aspect. It used to be common for Catholic girls around the age of 15 to have religious experiences and to ask to join convents and become nuns. An Islamic state with strict rules might have had a similar attraction for a young girl struggling to find a place in a permissive western society.

Galaxy I don't want to go off topic here, but your comment aroused a thought in my mind. Is Begum's situation akin to those French women during WW2 who went off with Nazi soldiers? Collaborators are collaborators whatever, be it for ideological reasons or for naïve fantasies. It could be said these women/girls betrayed the country of their birth too but after the war they weren't stripped of their nationality.

Along with many others I agree with Lemongrove - thank you for putting it so clearly. If we care about justice surely its clear that she couldn't instruct her lawyer from a refugee camp, or make her case in a UK court from there. She is entitled to justice.

Galaxy Let's introduce kangaroo courts and lynching! Let's have the kind of purity documents Nazi Germany introduced! Let's get some advice from China on dealing with people we don't like, such as the Uighurs!

I have been deluded all my life. I thought the UK had a reputation for being a civilised country with respect for the law as paramount, but I was wrong.

Ellianne

Has it been mentioned her mother died of cancer in the January, her father remarried in the September and she left in the December? It must have been hard for her to cope with these life changes and it is likely she was searching for something she had lost. Those who groomed her would have been clever enough to play on this.

And Ellianne, thank you. I knew her father had left and remarried.

Fifteen is an impressionable age and yes, she was vulnerable having lost her mother and probably feeling the one man she could trust had abandoned them.

Who gets to decide that some people belong in this country. Perhaps we should have a referendum. I sat behind two white British men on a train last year, they were drinking, littering, discussing their time in prison, and went on to mock the conductors accent (english was not his first language, and he was black). So my vote would be that those two men are shipped off somewhere and the immigrant stays. After all if we are barring people because of crimes why not.

JenniferEccles

Some of you are deliberately missing the point I am making!

Oh well I am sure others on this debate will know exactly what I mean.

So what point are you making? It seemed very clear to me.

Eloethan I hadn't realised that her mother had died. That is sad. Then her father moved back in Bangladesh and has a new family, doesn't he? I somehow thought he had left her with her mother.

Soon after that she left for Syria. What happened to her then does explain why she did that, a reaction to grief and then abandonment.

JenniferEccles, you suggest that Eloethan missed the point you were making. In contract, I think you missed the points Eloethan was making. British people whose ancestors came here to work at the request of our government are British. Your post suggests that anyone with an immigrant background should be eternally grateful to this country for providing their children and grandchildren with an education.

Elothean at 01.34 sets out very clearly and concisely why this country citizens whose ancestors were born in what used to be British colonies. Slightly off topic but I hope the discussions on Shamina Begum and BLM ensure that some white British people begin to understand our own history.

timetogo2016

I agree with easybee.
Also i would worry that she would re-offend.
Can you un-brain wash someone? i think not as they can be very manipulative.
This will open the flood gates for all the mungrel terrorists to come back.
This country`s polocies for terrorists needs a kick up the arse.

So where should the UK dump them? Australia stopped taking our misfits years ago.

Some of you are deliberately missing the point I am making!

Oh well I am sure others on this debate will know exactly what I mean.

Galaxy

Yes my father is german, came to this country 50 years ago. If I commit a crime somehow he is more responsible than a non immigrant. Its nonsense.

Well, obviously ... and it appears you would be too!

How about putting this in context?

She is being given the right to attend in person her appeal against removing her British citizenship. That is the law. If the law is to mean anything and the UK isn't to become a Wild West society, the law must be applicable to all.

Yes my father is german, came to this country 50 years ago. If I commit a crime somehow he is more responsible than a non immigrant. Its nonsense.

Opening the flood gates who else will be allowed back in

Why does "the daughter of immigrants" have any bearing on this?

Are you saying that children born of parents originating from another country are not "real" citizens? Would that principle also apply to people with French, Italian, German, etc, etc, heritage? How many generations does it take for our boundless generosity to be "repaid"? And who has repaid those countries whose social, economic and agricultural systems were divided and torn apart because of our presumption that their lives and way of life were of no importance and were simply there for the taking?

Something I didn't know was that her mother had recently died - so in fact she only had one parent. In any event, are parents always to be blamed for the actions of their children?

I agree with easybee.
Also i would worry that she would re-offend.
Can you un-brain wash someone? i think not as they can be very manipulative.
This will open the flood gates for all the mungrel terrorists to come back.
This country`s polocies for terrorists needs a kick up the arse.