Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

Usman Khan made that brutal attack against those two young and talented people sadly taking their lives. Tickingbird you are right he was on early release and he had been given permission to attend a prisoner rehabilitation meeting.
Naively those who have a say on those matters thought that
Khan was safe to attend when all the time his underlying sinister beliefs were about to unfold.

Usman Khan, had been released early from prison and given permission to enter London to attend a prisoner rehabilitation meeting. Two of the young volunteers lost their lives. I’d hate to see anyone else lose their life so needlessly.

JenniferEccles

No I am not going to post links WWM2! The police examined the girl’s computer and discovered the horrifically gruesome images she had been looking at.

That fact was widely reported at the time.

Oh right

I wonder if most really think that there’s never any rehabilitation or redemption for those who commit, even terrible crimes, particularly when they are young?

Yes there is. There is a most moving account of a teenager who killed a man in a pointless attack, and about the relationship that has developed between him and the mother of his victim. It is being broadcast on Radio 4 at 1.45 pm Monday to Friday this week.
But not something to be achieved easily or quickly, as people seem to think will happen in the case of Shamima Begum.

After reading through this thread I am glad that “public opinion” doesn’t hold sway over legal decisions in this country and that we have an independent judiciary, unlike some countries.

No doubt if we had a referendum on Capital Punishment we’d see the return of that.

I wonder if most really think that there’s never any rehabilitation or redemption for those who commit, even terrible crimes, particularly when they are young?

Naively perhaps I like to think there is.

I am so glad this is a forum where all types of views are freely expressed, no pc here! My own view is that if her British nationality is re-instaed, she might go and live with her family, who have decent views and were shocked by her actions. We are a tolerant and forgiving nation, and I do think there are more serious people to get concerned about.

trisher Because she is a traitor and should be put on trial.

No I am not going to post links WWM2! The police examined the girl’s computer and discovered the horrifically gruesome images she had been looking at.

That fact was widely reported at the time.

JenniferEccles

Some of my post was my opinion but some was known facts which is public knowledge.

I am interested in the known facts as I wasn’t aware of much of what you posted.

Would you be so kind as to post links or supply the evidence?
Thank you

The situation in Syria is so complicated, added to which the Kurds, who helped to defeat ISIS, were then attacked by Turkey.
There are over 3.5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey and probably many of them want to go home and rebuild their country.

Assad belongs to a minority sect but is in control.

Callistemon you are right of course. And Russia is supporting Assad. They are responsible along with the Iranians for the defeat of ISIS which makes you think how complicated things are. The US spent an absolute fortune in Syria as well.

Some of my post was my opinion but some was known facts which is public knowledge.

Callistemon is right about Russian interference and support for Assad in Syria. Huge relief that the HoC learned from Iraq and voted against joining the killing in Syria.
It’s worth remembering Blair isn’t solely responsible for the invasion with thecawful Bush. Parliament voted in favour.

If Shamima is allowed to come back to the UK not only could she be a danger but she could also be IN danger.

She is very high profile and there are people in this country who would not hesitate to do her harm.

trisher

Glorybee do you not understand? Saddam Hussein was a dictator installed by the West supported by the West and supplied with arms by the West until such time as they decided they didn't like him and then they sent in troops to remove him and invade Iraq. It's not just the sale of arms it is a sustained policy mostly to maintain the supply of oil to the West. Russia doesn't need it and had the sense to stay out of the region after they tried to control Afghanistan. The West can't or won't do the same.

Russia is at the forefront of the Syrian Civil war. Without Russia, Assad and his murderous regime would not have lasted this long.
It is one of the worst of humanitarian crises and the rest of the world largely ignores it.

Yes trisher, I do understand! My original point was that the Middle East has always been a volatile part of the world and was so without interference from the contemporary West. Long before the (ridiculous) Crusaders waded in and long, long before Saddam Hussein and the USA came into the picture, the area has fought amongst itself. Personally, and very unfortunately, I don’t think there will ever be lasting peace there.

JenniferEccles

She knew exactly what she was doing even at 15 years old.

She deliberately chose to look at horrific, graphic terrorist sites from her bedroom, sites which would make even battled scarred soldiers recoil, yet still decided to go.

She poses a huge risk to us here, plus of course if her citizenship is reinstated, that would set a precedent for others to do the same.

No doubt ‘human rights’ lawyers will be clamouring to represent her in what will undoubtedly be a high profile case.

I assume that is your opinion?

She knew exactly what she was doing even at 15 years old.

She deliberately chose to look at horrific, graphic terrorist sites from her bedroom, sites which would make even battled scarred soldiers recoil, yet still decided to go.

She poses a huge risk to us here, plus of course if her citizenship is reinstated, that would set a precedent for others to do the same.

No doubt ‘human rights’ lawyers will be clamouring to represent her in what will undoubtedly be a high profile case.

Glorybee do you not understand? Saddam Hussein was a dictator installed by the West supported by the West and supplied with arms by the West until such time as they decided they didn't like him and then they sent in troops to remove him and invade Iraq. It's not just the sale of arms it is a sustained policy mostly to maintain the supply of oil to the West. Russia doesn't need it and had the sense to stay out of the region after they tried to control Afghanistan. The West can't or won't do the same.

The problem isn’t just SB, as I understand it there are already about 400 IS returners now in the UK. We also allow people into the UK without sufficient checks on their backgrounds, I’m thinking of the Manchester Arena bomber, who wasn’t even a British citizen but was allowed to arrive and live here. I think he was from Libya, please correct if wrong.
I think, but again correct if I’m wrong, but I think we cannot charge people who commit crimes abroad in this country. If SB was to be charged, she would need to be charged in Syria, where she committed any crimes, if indeed she did commit crimes.
Unpalatable as it might be, we have a duty towards her as a citizen of the UK. I have no sympathy towards her, I’d rather she didn’t come back (along with all the others who already have returned) but I recognise the obligations of the UK.

I have read the posts and many people seem worried that S.B. can come back to the U.K. to plead her case.

The more I hear about it the more disturbed I feel. I acknowledge the fact she was 15 years old when she left the U.K. making her still a child however she would have known the reasons for the fighting in Syria and she was vowing her allegiance to it.

The worst terrorist atrocity I think about is the 2005 attacks.
Many called it 7/7 and those attacks which they planned as coordinated suicide attacks on the London transit system were appalling. Thirty nine people died and more than 700 people were injured. I always remember the red double decker bus with the roof torn off and there was 13 killed on that bus. Since then there has been many terrorist attacks in London all by these Muslim groups that are filled with hatred and show no mercy.
What is expected of the British people to not have concerns that S.B. is being allowed back to the U.K.

Indeed trisher, but in a macabre way that backs up my point - they are bought by the Middle East to use in the Middle East. If the weapons weren’t available for sale by the West but available from China or Russia, then they would be purchased from there (they may well do so anyway).

There’s no way I’m condoning arms sales by anyone, the fact that peace seems so elusive and we never learn is constantly depressing.

Glorybee perhaps not a haven of peace but also not necessarily subjected to the level of violence, the numbers of deaths and the devastation of civilisation which has been achieved through the weapons supplied by the west. We really cannot go on pretending that we are not responsible for what happens. One of the reasons the Iranians hate the US is because they supplied chemical weapons for Saddam to use against them in the Iraq/Iran war. The west wasn't fighting then but they were certainly responsible for the horrible deaths. You don't have to actively fight to be responsible.

I think we should look closely at why children commit crime, because if we dont it will just keep happening. Children will continue to be recruited because it's easy. I wonder what the success rate of the Prevent programme is, we only hear of its failures, I wonder what evidence there is of how effective it has been.

Yes, Galaxy. The trouble is getting to be one step ahead. Tower Hamlets has pages and pages of policies on radicalisation amongst children but is fighting a losing battle. There are literally 1000's of websites preying on young peoples' vulnerability. As you say, it's easy to recruit the kids but so difficult for the Metropolitan Police to get on top of it. I've driven past the Academy many times, it's a huge school, and amongst that great number several pupils are bound to slip the net.

trisher - I was making a ‘broad brush’ point about the volatility of the general area. The crusades were a response to fighting that had already been going on for centuries. All nations have/had wars and skirmishes and we would have done well to have kept our nose out of the ME a lot of the time. I see a lot of comment around blaming ‘The West’ for all the ills of the ME but to imply it would be a haven of peace if it it wasn’t for’The West’ is laughable.