Far left and far right

trisher

I wonder why the far right insist on believing that the far left dislike the UK? I'm far left and I love the UK I grew up in, a country where education was free, where a health service looked after everyone, where the poorest and weakest were supported, where a decent place to live was regarded as everyone's right, where a proper and efficient transport system operated and everyone was valued. I don't like the UK where there is no such thing as society and the wealthiest squeeze the poorest as hard as they can then leave them to rot.

Exactly trisher. As always, you say it so much better than I could.

'I don't like the UK where there is no such thing as society and the wealthiest squeeze the poorest as hard as they can then leave them to rot.'
I'm not entering a debate because I don't want to, but I have to tell you how it is for me because I have ended up in my retirement in a situation where, but for state benefits, I would be homeless. A tricky divorce and inability to earn as I had done previously due to the trauma of it all means that I depend on my state pension and benefits. Previously I ran a business and have paid taxes since I was 18. I have Housing Benefit which pays some of my rent, no Council Tax, free dental treatment. If you had ever said I would end up like this I wouldn't have believed it. Thank God for whichever government continues to contribute to keeping the wolf from my door. I may be wrong, but I often think that people posting are coming from a position of privilege and don't know what it's like to be without.

Kettylester, it is unsafe to leave care of the less able to private charity. This worked after a fashion when the local village church folk or the monastery cared for the less able or the sick.

Also, this way right wing governments have of giving contracts to private firms means the cheapest and least efficient tends to be allocated the work.

Aw thank you Gagajo
As far as the right wing caring for the poorest goes I think some are still stuck in the Victorian era and are willing to drop crumbs from the table to the well behaved poor (the deserving) but believe some of the poor don't behave well enough so they shouldn't be supported (the undeserving).

Old fashioned views from the left.

I'd rather have old fashioned views and beliefs that care about people than think it is OK for some people to live in dreadful conditions and go hungry.

kittylester

Old fashioned views from the left.

What is old fashioned about them, kittylester?

trisher

Aw thank you Gagajo
As far as the right wing caring for the poorest goes I think some are still stuck in the Victorian era and are willing to drop crumbs from the table to the well behaved poor (the deserving) but believe some of the poor don't behave well enough so they shouldn't be supported (the undeserving).

That is an old fashioned view.

I don't judge people by their politics, I judge them by their behaviour.

I would describe myself as a left leaning moderate.

Is it fair to say that most (not all) of my friends are somewhere on the left?

Is it fair to say that I personally have witnessed more unkindness from right leaning people?

Is it fair to say that most left leaning people I associate do love their country and want it to be the best version of itself?

Its the truth of my experience so there is that.

Gagajo, I do believe there are individual Tories who are nice people despite the Tory ideology.

Will you all listen to yourselves!

kittylester

trisher

Aw thank you Gagajo
As far as the right wing caring for the poorest goes I think some are still stuck in the Victorian era and are willing to drop crumbs from the table to the well behaved poor (the deserving) but believe some of the poor don't behave well enough so they shouldn't be supported (the undeserving).

That is an old fashioned view.

It's a perfectly valid view which applies to 'some' as trisher says (and evidenced by opinions voiced on this site from time to time).

People's views don't change greatly over long periods of time. You can find the same diversity (and often just about the same language) in debates of 200 years ago.

Would you like to give us some examples of up to date modern views, kittylester?

growstuff if you're back. I've pointed out before (as have you) about the 3 million who've fallen through the gap and the response, from grandad has been they could get jobs in the supermarkets and that where there's a will there's a way.

Dinahmo

growstuff if you're back. I've pointed out before (as have you) about the 3 million who've fallen through the gap and the response, from grandad has been they could get jobs in the supermarkets and that where there's a will there's a way.

Just shows what a caring and knowledgeable human being he is!

Words fail me and I'm not risking my blood pressure to point how flawed the thinking that this government is "socialist" is.

I am proud of the welfare state that helps the needy but acknowledge that there are some who abuse the system this does not make me uncaring.
I am proud that we have a diverse society but acknowledge that our infrastructure is creaking under the strain and needs to be improved to accommodate further immigration this does not make me a racist.
I believe that aspiration should be encouraged, opportunity given and effort rewarded but I am aware that some, through no fault of their own, lack the capability to seize opportunity and need our care and compassion.
I think I'm right of centre, others may call me extreme, it depends how each of us define these terms.
I welcome comment but not mud slinging.

Peardrop50

I am proud of the welfare state that helps the needy but acknowledge that there are some who abuse the system this does not make me uncaring.
I am proud that we have a diverse society but acknowledge that our infrastructure is creaking under the strain and needs to be improved to accommodate further immigration this does not make me a racist.
I believe that aspiration should be encouraged, opportunity given and effort rewarded but I am aware that some, through no fault of their own, lack the capability to seize opportunity and need our care and compassion.
I think I'm right of centre, others may call me extreme, it depends how each of us define these terms.
I welcome comment but not mud slinging.

Sounds left of centre to me

kittylester sorry I though you meant my socialists views were old fashioned. Well here's why it isn't old fashioned.
The deserving poor- there are many threads where the right wingers will acknowledge that some degree of support is needed because anyone can slip into needing help (these the Victorians called "the deserving poor")
The Undeserving poor- now they are referred to as benefit scroungers, layabouts or spongers off the state. Some of the same people as the Victorians castigated come into this category- single parents or unmarried mothers for example.
It doesn't matter how much evidence you present to show how most people move off benefits in time, or how hard it is to stay on them Some will still insist there are lots of people out there doing it.
Those aren't old fashioned views they are ones found on GN every day.

Good post peardrop.

I think a lot of people have forgotten that politics isn't football. You don't pick a team and support them regardless.

Actually looking into policy and track record instead of the biased news, they might surprise themselves

It’s laughable, isn’t it Kitty ....some of the views on here are straight from a Marxist handbook circa 1900.
Still, Alexa concedes that some individual Tories are nice people ( despite their ideology)?so it’s not all bad.
As Grandad 1943 has pointed out many times ( although his comments are not liked, strangely) this government has acted throughout like a socialist government, giving so much monetary support to save jobs and help people get through hard times.

MellowYellow sorry to hear of your difficulties, but glad that you are managing with help ( State) these sort of sudden hardships that come out of the blue can floor us all.

Peardrop do you know how difficult it is to abuse the welfare system? Or are you basing your beliefs on TV programmes made to make you believe it's happening everywhere?

Peardrop50, I don't agree with you but you have explained so I understand your point of view.

Alexa, I totally agree. And I have to say, despite loathing Thatcher for what she did to the working classes, she had strength, conviction and LED her party. Boris is being led by Cummings.

trisher....all who need state help are deserving, and there are so many reasons that some will always need this help for life.Others may need monetary help for only a short while.
The system is there for all of these cases.

Lemongrove funny isn't it that there is a magic money tree now, when there wasn't a trace of one five or ten years ago. Makes you think what could have been done in those ten years if the will was there.