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News & politics

Far left and far right

(105 Posts)
Sparkling Sun 19-Jul-20 07:49:26

The far left and the far right are worrying tonsayvtgeckeast. I do find that on this News and Political Forum, there are a fair number of far left people who quickly dismantle discussion. I have decided not to comment any more because of this. Why I wonder do Far Left dislike the UK. I guess I will never know.

kittylester Sun 19-Jul-20 07:59:08

Why is everything described as 'Far' Right and 'Far' Left?

I am slightly to the right of centre and, I suspect, most people are 'slightly' left or right.

Grandad1943 Sun 19-Jul-20 08:10:23

Depends on what any person views as far left is sparkling. There are within the Labour movement centre left persons, left-wing persons, far left persons and hard-left people.

I would view myself as left to hard left in my political views and I certainly do not hate Britain or anything within it.

We have at this point in time a hard-left government through its total support of nearly ten million workers by way of paying their wages and salaries for more than four months now.

The above is real socialism in action although it is being carried out by a Conservative government, and that I very much applaud. However, I do not think this government through its actions hates Britain???

varian Sun 19-Jul-20 08:12:52

That is probably true Kitty but those whose own views are extreme tend to label centrists as belonging to the opposite extreme.

Grany Sun 19-Jul-20 08:40:59

I am a proud lefty a democratic socialist.

The News and Politics thread is about discussing mainly the government of the day which turns out is a Tory one.

The fact is that this government hasn't handled the corona virus pandemic as well as other countries have done there are comparisons, other countries can see we are second only to USA for death rates nothing to be proud of. There is Johnson being found out in telling lies seems second nature. So those things need calling out amongst other things happening in this country. I guess those on the left, who are not dyed in the wool Conservatives and can see what's happening to this country, bring theses things to be discussed with everyone allowed their opinion in a respectful manner talking about the points raised not the poster raising them.

Urmstongran Sun 19-Jul-20 08:41:26

Funny how i think I’m just right of centre too! We should all be getting on really well yet the political threads can get so heated haha!
😊

growstuff Sun 19-Jul-20 08:43:08

(sigh) We do not have a hard-left government. I really don't understand how you can come up with the kind of claim Grandad.

Look at some serious analyses about where the money the Chancellor has "printed" is ending up. It is not always with the people who really need. Trends are beginning to show very clearly. About three million people have been left out of any support packages completely.

A "hard left" government would restructure society, so that the poorest benefited. This government has done exactly the opposite in the short time it's been in power. Renters and the self-employed have been more or less abandoned. It's also handed out billions of contracts to cronies.

Very little of the money promised to education, health/social care or infrastructure projects is new money.

The disaster capitalists are already circling like vultures.

If Sunak wants to show that he's "hard left" he needs to impose a wealth tax as soon as possible. He needs to cut inheritance tax allowances, etc etc.

It takes more than getting the Bank of England to "print" money to be a socialist.

Anyway, this kind of thread has popped up before. I have other things to do.

Loislovesstewie Sun 19-Jul-20 08:44:47

I don't care where you are on the political spectrum, I only ask that we can have a sensible debate without name calling.

Grandad1943 Sun 19-Jul-20 09:11:37

Urmstongran

Funny how i think I’m just right of centre too! We should all be getting on really well yet the political threads can get so heated haha!
😊

Well, as I have stated Urmstongran, I think of myself as near hard left and you think of yourself as centre-right and yet we, I feel, have never fallen out personally on this forum.

However, as you state, with a Conservative government carrying out hard-left policies we certainly ALL should be getting on well together. 😃

That stated with it being announced that Len McCluskey is to retire in the next few months, the Unite Union, many believe, will take a hard left turn in its political policies and they are the Labour Parties largest funding provider.

Already there is talk within Unite that they may stop funding what they view now as a right-wing Labour Party.

McCluskey has been a great leader of Unite and through that the whole broader Labour movement in the country. His name will surely go down in the history books with the likes of Jack Jones, Hugh Scanlon, Clement Atlee and Ernest Bevin in terms of left-wing leadership.

geekesse Sun 19-Jul-20 09:26:30

Isn’t it just the case that some people are unpleasant, whatever their political view? Ad hominem attacks are not necessary in civilised debate.

GagaJo Sun 19-Jul-20 09:40:24

The difference Sparkling, is that the left cares about everyone in the UK, including the non productive members (old, infirm, disabled), wereas the right only cares about the wealthy. They only care about the poor IF they are productive units for the wealthy.

MaizieD Sun 19-Jul-20 09:42:10

geekesse

Isn’t it just the case that some people are unpleasant, whatever their political view? Ad hominem attacks are not necessary in civilised debate.

We could have an entirely separate discussion on what constitutes an 'ad hominem' attack, too...

This left/right stuff is never going to be resolved. It's all in the eye of the beholder, really, and everyone sees things differently. I'm a bit astonished by one or two of the self IDs that have been made already on this thread grin

kittylester Sun 19-Jul-20 09:49:57

GagaJo

The difference Sparkling, is that the left cares about everyone in the UK, including the non productive members (old, infirm, disabled), wereas the right only cares about the wealthy. They only care about the poor IF they are productive units for the wealthy.

What a ridiculous thing to say gaga.

ladymuck Sun 19-Jul-20 09:52:53

Some people just like to argue and be unpleasant, irrespective of political views. It doesn't make for a proper discussion sadly, which is very frustrating.
Why must people be labelled right or left? I'm not sure which I am but I still have strong opinions on things.

Galaxy Sun 19-Jul-20 09:56:22

I would say I am centre left but I think pitting the left as good and the right as bad is naive in the extreme. If you want a labour government you need some of those 'bad' tories to vote for you.

Galaxy Sun 19-Jul-20 10:01:40

I would clarify though that old style one nation tories are a every different breed to some in the current administration. I dont think for one minute Ken Clarke for example doesn't care about people, I may not agree with him politically but that's an entirely different thing.

trisher Sun 19-Jul-20 10:01:54

I wonder why the far right insist on believing that the far left dislike the UK? I'm far left and I love the UK I grew up in, a country where education was free, where a health service looked after everyone, where the poorest and weakest were supported, where a decent place to live was regarded as everyone's right, where a proper and efficient transport system operated and everyone was valued. I don't like the UK where there is no such thing as society and the wealthiest squeeze the poorest as hard as they can then leave them to rot.

Alexa Sun 19-Jul-20 10:02:26

Varian wrote:

"The disaster capitalists are already circling like vultures."

'Disaster capitalism' has not before been explained to grans here. Please, varian, take some time to explain it. Many of us simply need and want to be informed.

Spangler Sun 19-Jul-20 10:03:37

It is often said, if you want to avoid heated arguments never discuss politics or religion.
Or whether the toilet tissue roll should go over or under!

kittylester Sun 19-Jul-20 10:09:51

I am steaming about your comment gagajo.

How dare you say that about people like me, and many others. What do you know about how we live our lives, what we do to help people worse off than ourselves. How we have encouraged and supported people who have worked for DH to improve their lives.

Galaxy is completely correct. You cant dismiss a whole swathe of the country in such a cavalier way.

What a narrow minded, tunnel visioned view.

eazybee Sun 19-Jul-20 10:15:50

I find this trend to label everyone disturbing, particularly increasing appellations of hard/far right or left.
Conservatives and Labour share many aspirations for the future of the country, which they may approach and deliver in different ways.
Comments such as Labour cares for everyone, Conservatives only care for the wealthy, are risible.

Galaxy Sun 19-Jul-20 10:17:18

However I will clarify that I think a number of the players in this government are very different from your bog standard Tory.

Peardrop50 Sun 19-Jul-20 10:18:55

Personally I do enjoy political discussion. We can all learn from views that are different from our own if we listen and reflect. It is easy to think that 'we' are right and 'they' are wrong, debate can help to find a middle ground that is workable.
The discussion falls down when one 'side' announces that the opposing 'side' is unintelligent, racist, ignorant or any other slur. There may be folk on either side of an argument that do display unintelligent, racist, ignorant or other unacceptable views but to label everyone with opposing views to oneself in this way closes down vital discussion and hampers agreement.

Lexisgranny Sun 19-Jul-20 10:24:07

ladymuck I’m with you. A few years ago I would have had no doubts at all in describing my politics, but over the years the ‘middle’ has become wider and blurred. I think the last election showed that people whose family politics are deeply rooted in one party are now becoming more open to the ethos of others.
I was thinking the other day of whom I would pick for a coalition government and came up with the grand total of two - oddly enough one from each of the main parties, neither of which I would want as the Leader!
I also agree that some people just like to argue, and I fear the art of debate is lost and descends into a slanging match.
The other day an older lady told me that she worries very much for the younger generation and their futures and that she’s glad that she is in the latter half of her life and fears that her generation had ‘the best of it’ .......a sobering thought

GagaJo Sun 19-Jul-20 10:34:53

kittylester

GagaJo

The difference Sparkling, is that the left cares about everyone in the UK, including the non productive members (old, infirm, disabled), wereas the right only cares about the wealthy. They only care about the poor IF they are productive units for the wealthy.

What a ridiculous thing to say gaga.

After all of the comments on GN about the poor, benefit claimants, lazy furloughed workers, single mothers, ethnic minority criminals (the list goes on and on) PLUS the right wing government stripping benefits, support, legal aid, the HUGE rise in the need for food banks, etc etc HOW and where is the evidence that the right wing cares about the poor and the vulnerable?

Prove me wrong. I would welcome it.