Response to new covid measures - old v young; left v right

quizqueen

growstuff-I don't understand the 'logic' of thinking an unborn fetus is not a real person. They certainly are the more vulnerable as a quarter of a million are aborted each year in the UK. Next time you know someone who is upset because she has had a miscarriage, try saying to her, 'Get over it, it was only a fetus, not the much wanted child you wanted!!!

I'm with AW- anti-vaxer, conspiracy theorist, right wing etc.

Quod erat

lemongrove

I am as puzzled as maddy as Eid or no Eid, there should certainly not be eight cars in the drive, meaning multiple guests from many different households all mingling together in one residence and garden, and presumably staying there?

My thoughts too Lemon and Maddy.

Can't agree that politics has anything to do with it. Sensible folk on any side of the political divide as often reflected on Gransnet and equally some rebels who consider themselves immune to all laws never mind to covid-19.
Can see differences between attitudes of age groups. All of us are immortal when we're young but cautious and realistic as we age.

I understand about Eid, we always did an Eid celebration in my school round about Eid time. I’m not being racist, I know and understand that Eid is the most important time of the year for Muslims, but there are guidelines and laws in place that specifically state that members of only two households can meet together in a house, and also only up to six people from different households outdoors. Therefore whether it’s Eid, Christmas, or Easter or any other festival, eight cars should not be in the driveway of one house. We saw nobody from our family at Easter, including my elderly mother because we were not supposed to meet anyone from different households, and we followed the rules. Easter is normally a family occasion for us, but not this year. Eid is a family occasion, but the rules don’t allow for eight families to meet together in one house. Everyone should follow the rules, young, old, religious, non religious, weddings, funerals. Not following the rules causes the virus to spread. There can’t be exceptions, although I’m acutely aware that many people think the rules don’t apply to them. That’s why the virus is spreading. I’m lucky, we live in a low spread area, so people can probably celebrate Eid happily together not really following rules, and there probably won’t be a problem, but Manchester has had a high rate of spread for a long time, so people can’t afford to flout the rules.

Even more surprising that Asian communities are mingling so much, when they are more at risk from Covid than most others.

I am as puzzled as maddy as Eid or no Eid, there should certainly not be eight cars in the drive, meaning multiple guests from many different households all mingling together in one residence and garden, and presumably staying there?

maddyone - probably because many members of the extended family arrived last night to celebrate Eid. We need to remember that the new regulations were announced on twitter at about 9.17 pm. Imagine if on Christmas Eve a similar announcement was made. Effectively cancelling Christmas.

I've no problem with the new lockdown. I find it difficult to believe that the news that this weekend coincides with Eid celebrations alongside an increase in the virus amongst young people from various communities, including Bangladeshi and Pakistani.

geekesse I think that like many people of other generations, young people can be kind and caring - but only to those they know.

We had neighbours in Suffolk (our age) who were Tories and supporters of MT. She, who was an extremely kind person to those she knew, was opposed to the NHS and also benefits. Her caring did not extend to the wider public.

Why have houses got eight cars in the drive because it’s Eid? No more than two households are supposed to meet indoors, or six people from different households out of doors. So no following of the guidelines there then.

Calendargirl, I know and work with a lot of young people and none of those I work with are as callous as you suggest. They have been being good neighbours to older folk during lockdown in very practical ways. Perhaps you don’t mix with many younger people on a regular basis?

There is a theory that any vaccine will spread the disease and in the States, those that are opposed to vaccines believe they are a breach of their civil liberties - first amendment rights etc.

I don't understand quizqueen's statement at all. One wouldn't even tell someone who's had an abortion to get over it.

geekesse

I didn’t mean that they are not following the guidance re social distancing etc. I just think that to many ‘younger’ people, old people are just that, old, and dying is what happens when you’re old.

Thinking back to when I was 20, I could never imagine being 50 or 60, and to me that seemed very old.

quizqueen

growstuff-I don't understand the 'logic' of thinking an unborn fetus is not a real person. They certainly are the more vulnerable as a quarter of a million are aborted each year in the UK. Next time you know someone who is upset because she has had a miscarriage, try saying to her, 'Get over it, it was only a fetus, not the much wanted child you wanted!!!

I'm with AW- anti-vaxer, conspiracy theorist, right wing etc.

Care to expand On why you are with AW Quizqueen ??

Or not.like with Tommy Robinson.

Any point asking what you mean by anti vaccine ??

Calendargirl

I don’t think a lot of younger people, and by that I mean anyone 40’ish and under, are too worried about older people dying, unless it’s say their grandparents.

They just see them as ‘old codgers’ who have had their life, and just not bothered really.

Oh, I think you are being very unfair. There are some younger people who are irresponsible and selfish, but you could say exactly the same about many older people too - there have been plenty of GN posts about this. The vast majority of people, of all ages, are being responsible and caring of others during this pandemic.

We are so grateful that we have been able to see some of our grandchildren, but they are also very strict about social distancing, They are currently camping in our garden, which seems ridiculous as we have a large family house with many bedrooms including one which has always been there for them but they will not step inside the house.

I am so grateful that my children and grandchildren will keep their distance to protect us.

I don't think politics come into this. Two weeks ago, restrictions were eased and many people seemed to think the danger had passed. They stopped being cautious and were gathering in large groups, with no social distancing. We are now seeing the result....an increase in cases of the virus. They are responsible for the new measures being brought in. If people can't be sensible, then they have to be dictated to.

It's got nothing to do with being right wing or libertarians. We all are at risk because of the selfishness of a minority.

Here in the North, many of the new cases are among the Asian population, which tend to live in large family groups, helping the spread of the disease. Hence the rules about households not mixing.

I don’t think a lot of younger people, and by that I mean anyone 40’ish and under, are too worried about older people dying, unless it’s say their grandparents.

They just see them as ‘old codgers’ who have had their life, and just not bothered really.

The 6 o'clock news has just featured the inevitably packed Brighton and Bournemouth beaches, given it's scorching here in the south today, all the bars are open and doing a roaring trade. I know Bournemouth beach well . Lots of young people being interviewed, many laughingly described how they were packed like sardines on the trains coming down. One older woman did reflect that many may be rendering themselves vulnerable and will then be returning home to older members of their family. This I seem to remember is what I read about when initially Italy was the worst hit country and the young people came back to inter generational households unwittingly passing the virus on to parents and grandparents.

growstuff-I don't understand the 'logic' of thinking an unborn fetus is not a real person. They certainly are the more vulnerable as a quarter of a million are aborted each year in the UK. Next time you know someone who is upset because she has had a miscarriage, try saying to her, 'Get over it, it was only a fetus, not the much wanted child you wanted!!!

I'm with AW- anti-vaxer, conspiracy theorist, right wing etc.

What young people don't seem to be taking on board is that this disease can have very unpleasant long term after effects at whatever age it is caught. It's not just being 'a bit ill' for a few days. It could well be life altering...

Why this message isn't coming out very strongly from the government with a proper public health campaign I do not know.

I think that locking down areas with an increased infection rate is correct, whatever time it is announced is going to be the wrong time for some.

As for masks, if shoppers wear them so should those who work in shops, anything that helps to stop the spread of COVID-19.

It is not natural to be confined in the UK, the teenage - under 30’s are struggling. For us that are retired in my opinion it has been relatively easy.

I do worry about the increase in mental health problems in those people who are not /have not coped during lockdown.

It appears to me it's an age demographic thing, I know I have one son who is extremely cavalier and appeared to think a week or so ago we are out of the woods. He turns up every few days and sits in the garden having arguments, not heated ones, to that effect, although there isn't a great clarity in the guidance, but one has to keep oneself up dated because the situation can change daily. My other son, keeps himself better informed is much more considered in his outlook and both he and his girlfriend would observe the distancing measures when out and and about that both sets of parents are sticking to. We've seen our younger grandchildren and had them both in the house and garden. My husband's older grown up grandchildren, again we've seen less of because they've also been out all over the place in the cut and thrust of protest marches and the like.

Having said that, I think this is easier for us of the retired generation, in many ways it must be hellish for younger people, worried about work in particular and of course all this is unprecedented, I'm sure I'd have been climbing the wall back in my younger years. Aside from all the obvious worries about work and money casting my mind back there's a palpable impatience that often goes with youth to get out there and experience it all, socialising, holidays, it kind of goes with the territory, I guess stoicism kicks in the later years. We've all had time to ponder and I realise so many things I once embraced, so called retail therapy, mean very little to me anymore, I'd rather look at trees

I remember on one of our first walks during early lockdown, the days of 1 hour exercise only and strict social distancing, seeing a group of boys in our park with balls and bikes and no concept of social distancing. I said to my husband, how hellish it must be for their parents, would ours of taken any notice whatsoever, they'd have just seen it as a great opportunity not to be at school and to be out with a group of friends on skateboards, roller blades, football whatever, I don't envy the parents of that age group.

Anne Widdecombe should always be muzzled.

I can actually understand the thinking of young people. Like most of us, they're selfish. Life for most of them does mean socialising. Strictly speaking, they can't even see a partner living in a different household.

The ones I don't understand are the so-called libertarians, but I guess it's part of their philosophy of not caring about anybody else except themselves. I find it ironic when I've seen pictures of demos in the US, where some people are holding up anti-abortion placards. I don't understand the logic of caring more about an unborn foetus than a vulnerable person who could die from Covid-19.

MawB

varian

It is not just in Germany that there are far-right covid refusniks. We have them here too.

‘Mask dissenter’ Ann Widdecombe wants to shop ‘unmuzzled’

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/mask-dissenter-ann-widdecombe-wants-to-shop-unmuzzled/27/07/

I've noticed the word "muzzle" used in a number of media sources. Using that kind of language encourages people to think they're being restricted by force.