Is morality something you expect of others?

"Let he who is without sin..." And all that.

Whether he has feet of clay or not - he's right on this issue.

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Rosina his children have spoken about him, his daughter called him a "selfish bastard" No.1 child was born 5 weeks after his marriage, so was conceived whilst he was still married to Wife No 1. During his marriage he had at least 3 affairs and was thrown out by his wife several times. One of the women had an abortion another had a child and there are rumours of another child. It took a High Court ruling to make him take responsibility for that child. He then conceived another child whilst still married to Wife No 2. Now you may or may not think this immoral but you must admit it's messy. If he was a woman do you think his behaviour would be considered acceptable?

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Lucca so Lemongrove with her comment about the French taking it in their stride isn't stereotyping?

Rosina I don't suppose that many of us on here care about who does what to whom. Why is it though, that whenever he's criticised his apologists refer to his private life but ignore the comments about corruption, cronyism and nepotism?

What actually matters in all of this is the children. I used to teach in a rather tough area. School was often the most safe and secure place for many of our children. Every day that children are out of school is a day that can never be recovered in the life of a child. Children deserve their education, it is one of the rights of a child, according to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. We as a society must offer a proper education to our children. It is our duty to do so. Obviously there are some risks with children back in school, but as luck would have it, we are now told younger children are unlikely to catch or spread Coronavirus. Now the scientists know more about this virus it seems children are not the spreaders they once were thought to be. However the science tells us differently in the case of older children, but older children are able to understand and follow instructions more readily. Teachers need to accept the risk I’m afraid, in the same way as my daughter and her husband, who worked as doctors throughout the crisis, and my son who is now back in the office working as a financial director and his wife also back at work as an accountant. Only one son can still work from home now, as a lawyer. Other key workers have worked all the way through, and have been in contact with the public all through.

There is a risk in everything we do, particularly now with the Coronavirus situation. Unless everyone stays in permanent lockdown, some risks will remain.

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Really?

Not even Sarkozi
Or Hollande?
Griveaux?
Fillon?
Cahuzac?

Etc

I was a great fan of Jeremy Thorpe lemongrove

Excellent post, *maddyone
For some children, school is their only safe space.

We cannot fail a generation.

Yes Callistemon a lot of people were.

Nope, it isn’t stereotyping about the French, it’s the simple truth, they are a lot more forgiving there about affairs of the heart.?
Being constantly shocked isn’t stereotyping about the British either, it’s another simple truth.

maddyone totally agree with your post.

I have a 3 yr old GC in nursery, no social distancing and their sibling starts next month at 1yrs old.

11 and over have to wear a mark to go into a shop, public transport, museum etc so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to wear them in school. With hand sanitisers/washing surely it can be sorted?

*mark should read mask

If the level of staffing in schools was anywhere near that which is mandatory in nurseries GrannyGravy13 I doubt if there would be many worries. The 3 year old will have one carer to eight children, unfortunately when she starts school aged 4 she will be pushed into a class of up to 30, if she's lucky there might be a TA some of the time.
Hand sanitisers are an excellent idea, perhaps you could write to your MP and ask that they provide schools with enough cash to buy the quantities they will need.

I generally enjoy Gransnet but there ate far too many people who just hate Conservative government and Boris Johnson in particular. So now no prime minister may use the term “moral duty” unless his personal morality is equal to that of the Pope? What ridiculous nonsense some Grans speak because they personally despise a politician. I know many regard Jeremy Corbyn as an enemy of liberal democracy but if he was speaking on a highly important national issue if he was PM then most thinking people would listen. I think we do, as a moral duty to our children, to get schools open. If your morality does not extend to protecting the needs of vulnerable children then maybe you need to look at your own morality.

I really do not think that teachers are frightened for their own safety - some might be; or have vulnerable relatives at home. The staff I have spoken to are mostly concerned about the children; and about how they can make them safe in the context of cash-strapped schools just about coping anyway, who now have to take on a whole new system in order to safeguard the pupils. They will of course do it; and are currently working hard to set up the right plans. But they are doing it with one hand tied behind their backs.

I am aware of one teacher who was concerned about taking the virus home to a relative on chemo and finished up taking unpaid leave - a very difficult situation for a family already in distress.

I really do think that the Welsh approach is so much wiser - gradually getting the children back and learning as they go, so that they can make any necessary adjustments.

On the subject of Boris - I am not that bothered about where or with whom he dips his wick - although his behaviour in that regard does him no credit. I am however worried that he is known to be a liar in his previous jobs. That for me disqualifies him from his current job.

If I was on an interview panel and a candidate came before me who had lied his way through a previous position, then would I employ him? - absolutely not; and neither would anyone else.

Anniel

I generally enjoy Gransnet but there ate far too many people who just hate Conservative government and Boris Johnson in particular. So now no prime minister may use the term “moral duty” unless his personal morality is equal to that of the Pope? What ridiculous nonsense some Grans speak because they personally despise a politician. I know many regard Jeremy Corbyn as an enemy of liberal democracy but if he was speaking on a highly important national issue if he was PM then most thinking people would listen. I think we do, as a moral duty to our children, to get schools open. If your morality does not extend to protecting the needs of vulnerable children then maybe you need to look at your own morality.

It's also the moral duty of the government to provide an environment in schools which as safe as possible.

To do that, it needs to concentrate in getting the Test and Track system up to scratch by making testing more available for anybody within a school and ensure that results are quick. The government has specifically ruled out the 90 minute tests to schools. It needs to rethink after wasting so much time and money on failed projects.

It also needs to consider the circumstances in individual schools. Williamson kept going on about social distancing in schools being enough to prevent spread. However, in many schools, particularly secondary schools, classrooms are too small and pupils can't possibly be more than a metre apart. In those circumstances, there should be contingency plans to do the best possible, which is to have a rota system, as originally suggested by SAGE.

So, yes, the government does have a moral duty to get its act together. The children should be paramount, but it should also be acknowledged that infection in schools could seed local outbreaks, which will force whole communities to lockdown, which will have a negative effect on the economy.

It's not rocket science. The government needs to stop trying to shift the blame and recognise its own moral responsibility.

A staged return of employees is the policy adopted by many employers and one which is proving to be very good practise.

Schools I feel could adopt similar practice by setting up group bubbles originally with only twenty five percent of each group attending in the first week. Should all the safety regime work well then a further twenty five percent can then be added in the second week until all children are back in school learning by the end of September.

Where space does not allow for social distancing two-shift systems could be introduced which is also a practice which has been adopted by many employers. A further alternative could be the use of outside premises such as church halls or council owned buildings which contain meeting rooms.

Thinking outside the box is and has been the key in the unprecedented situation every sector of society has found itself in throughout this crisis. Each workplace has had to adapt to its own circumstance and schools must also think in those terms.

trisha when my GC started school last September @ 4 yrs old the intake was 40 split into two classes each with a teacher and two full time TA’s.

This is a state school the same one as my DD attended which has maintained its staffing levels.

Yes, Grandad, phased return could and should happen, a rota system could and should happen, shifts could and should happen, using other premises could and should happen. All these things have been said over and over again by the teachers and ex-teachers on Gransnet, and by teachers and teachers' unipons in the media and else where.

I will repeat it again - the unions and almost all teachers are not whinging that they can't do it or they don't want risk their own health, but saying that they are not allowed to do certain things and starved of money from their ultimate employers, Johnson and co to do other things that have to be paid for.

No-one is denying what the medical profession has done - but nurses were not asked to seek out, rent, furnish and maintain space in church halls to put two thirds of patients in as make-shift hospitals and to buy extra equipment out of their own pockets as well as to work long tiring hours in the front line - if they had been expected to, there would have been an outcry.

I should have said, "out of a budget which they received well before Covid appeared, which had already been fully allocated for the year, and which has been shrinking steadily for decades" rather than using terms that imply that individuals are shelling out.

I completely agree that our PM is such a bad example of morality, especially to the younger generation. He was living with another whilst still married, has illegitimate children and left his last wife whilst she was having treatment for cancer!

I really don't think what we say about what should happen in schools will make any difference . Johnson comes out with his rhetoric , whether or not its achievable,is reluctant to give advice,so others can be blamed and so on. Sage has said they think a rota would be a good idea, but they are out of favour. The children's zsar has asked for testing, Nick Gibb says no, not necessary(probably because the testing system is in such disarray )Public Health England have said (Times this am)that tougher rules are likely to be needed for older children, but Gavin Williamson said a study showed there was little risk in government plans for children to get back . and so it goes on
with everyone at the mercy of an inept , self seeking government.
I still think that a lot of the P.M.'s bluster is to cover up matters . He seems to have a good idea as I dont see many people being anxious about Jenrick's activities, about Cumming's pals getting contracts, about lies told, about the ~Tory failure to withdraw the Whip from the M.P.who should resign. These things do matter in terms of the legacy we leave for our grandchildren. Don't they ?

Elegran in regard to your post @07:50 today, I am afraid I have to say that constantly on this forum and others we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

However, it is now good to see that those in education who are prepared to see such new initiatives brought into practice are now coming to the fore.

As in many working sectors what now lies in front of the teaching profession will not be easy and not all initiatives will meet with instant success. However, there is much experience that the education sector can now draw on from outside, and the Health and Safety Executive, our own company have found, have been beyond excellence throughout the crisis.

Keeping an open mind to all proposals and initiatives is the key to success and saved many businesses in this crisis and I have no doubt with the right people now coming to the fore, education will very soon also be operating once again to its full potential.

Oh Elegran if only people would read what you have written !!