Is morality something you expect of others?

Johnson was a dreadful mayor of London - cut police, fire service, and lied about it, spent afternoons at that pole dancers flat when he was supposed to be working, got his cronies to cover up for him. Wasted millions of taxpayers money on several useless vanity projects. He wouldn’t know moral duty if it slapped him in the face.

Callistemon

maddyone

When BJ spoke of moral duty and ‘we’ I understood it to mean we as a society have a moral duty to get our children back into school, so I tend to think that the personal morals of BJ, or anyone else to be irrelevant.

That is exactly what I was saying way back in the thread but you have put it so much better, maddyone.

That's as maybe, but a great many people actively resent

a) being told their 'moral duty' by a man who has no concept of what a 'moral duty' is

and

b) the implication that by not rushing to open up schools they are somehow deficient in morals and failing as dutiful citizens. Which is very insulting...

Rosina have you been living on the moon? Just google Boris and his children. He has 4 by his second wife, and one illegitimate child he had to be taken to court to acknowledge, there are also allegations that he paid for abortions for his mistress. They haven't uttered unkind words. They have taken legal action.

I can understand a contempt of Boris Johnson and his lack of morals. However, some posters are allowing that to colour their judgement on this important issue.

We have a duty to the future generations and I believe most teachers do understand that and are keen to get back to work under safe conditions. Do schools really need it spelled out in step by step instructions by the government about what is safe and what is not? I don't think they do.

The teaching unions, of course, have a duty of care to their members but does that extend to the pupils?

I see the Boris haters are out in force again --- A stinking sewer of immorality is not a very nice thing to call anybody.

Luckygirl maybe you were listening to Mark Drakeford, Wales Firsr Minister, (the Education Minister is Kirsty Williams) if so, you would have heard the words careful and cautious used quite frequently*.

chatterbox2

I see the Boris haters are out in force again --- A stinking sewer of immorality is not a very nice thing to call anybody.

It's not a very nice thing to be, either, chatterbox. Unfortunately, that's our PM for you...

I can understand a contempt of Boris Johnson and his lack of morals. However, some posters are allowing that to colour their judgement on this important issue.

No they're not. They just think that caution should be well and truly exercised.

Israel opened up their schools; they're now experiencing a spike in cases which can be traced back to schools.

I'd ask people to have a look at this thread.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292760173233213445.html

Callistemon they aren't asking for step by step instructions they are saying that in some cases stepping straight up to 100% attendance in September may not be feasible and there should be other options available. Schools vary so much setting one goal for all is rather like saying to all football teams you will all provide the same facilities and accommodate as many supporters as Premier League clubs, which is of course impossible. As it is they will open but for how long is debatable. Wouldn't it be better to have a system in place which was sustainable and robust than one which just admits children, exposes them to risks and shuts down when any infection happens?

Luckygirl

Interesting interview with Welsh education minister on TV. He talked of the goal of getting children back to school, but recognised the need to take it steadily, to get some children back initially and see how the systems might be changed or improved and then aim to get all children back by the end of September.

Now there is the voice of common sense. If only we had a leader who did not feel the need to talk in soundbites and make swashbuckling statements. The voice of thoughtful reason would get everyone on board and make it clear that the government is thinking in practical terms, and listening - listening!

We have a woman, Kirsty Williams, who is Education Minister in Wales.
Perhaps it was Mark Drakeford, Fuirst Minister.

My DGC have already received information by letter about their return to school, it will be staggered but obviously much work is being done in "the holidays" to enable a safe return.

MaizieD that's just your opinion and not the opinion of many

It’s the opinion of many people who don’t call him Boris and regard him as some sort of cuddly friend.

The trouble with urging people to act in a moral way is that we all have different concepts of morality. I am not greatly interested in other people's sexual morality, so I don't really care if Jeremy Corbyn had an affair or Boris Johnson has innumerable kids by different women. It does make the latter look rather insincere when he tries to seize the moral high ground over children's welfare but insincerity has never bothered Johnson very much.

I do think, however, that it is hypocritical for this government to lecture us on moral duty. They have been proven to be utterly corrupt, rewarding their cronies/donors with titles and contracts. Millions of pounds of public money disappearing into the pockets of Tory supporters, often for goods never received. Seats in the House of Lords for voting the right way. To me, that is immoral behaviour. To Boris, presumably, it is moral to reward someone who gave the Conservative Party a nice fat donation, by making them a Lord. Gratitude is a virtue, after all.

So maybe morality is just a matter of opinion. To me, it seems shabby to talk about our moral duty to children when you have never cared about them before. A third of all children in the UK live below the poverty line. Does that thought keep the Prime Minister awake at night? Austerity has decimated children's services and kept benefits low and difficult to access. Many people have no guaranteed income, thanks to zero hours contracts. Millions struggle on low wages whilst rents have soared. As a result, there are children in this country, the sixth richest country in the world, who are scavenging in bins for food.

There has been a 41% real terms cut in capital spending on schools since 2010. There are schools with buckets on the floor to catch the rain. There are teachers paying out of their own wages, not only for pens and paper but for things like food or clothing for their pupils. Isn't it the government's moral duty to improve the welfare of these children? I think it is. Other people, with different concepts of morality, will disagree.

Is it parents' moral duty to send their children back to school? Or is it their moral duty to keep them out of an environment where they may become ill? Is it immoral to stop them mixing with their peers? Or is it immoral to create a situation where the virus may flourish, leading to a surge in deaths?

Who knows? Well, I am pretty sure it isn't Boris, who wants children back at school so that their parents can go back to work. This is about something more important than morality. This is about profits.

Dinahmo

Ellianne

Who says Boris Johnson was an excellent mayor of LondonEllianne?
As a Londoner that is my opinion.

I suspect that you are in a minority, but that probably depends upon which part you live in.

Since Londoners voted him in twice as Mayor, then presumably they did think he did a good job.

It’s just a word, nothing to obsess about.Happier with the word duty? BJ has had a colourful life as regards wives/ girlfriends ( something the French take in their stride!) but so what? That doesn’t mean he can’t say what he thinks is a moral obligation for society to do.
Who really expects politicians and a PM to be squeaky clean in their personal life ( they will be disappointed if they do) and it’s a naive attitude.

The man’s a fuckwit (pardon my French) and proven total liar. I wont be listening to any of his utterances, he makes my blood boil. It used to be there was some integrity with MPs and they had the decency to resign when caught doing what they shouldn’t. This shower couldn’t give a toss what they get caught doing or what decent people think of them. I can’t understand how some can keep defending them.
Emperor’s new clothes syndrome.

Bluecat, absolutely splendid post.

Lemongrove I expect to be able to trust my M.P.and my P.M.
To say it is naive to do so makes me wonder what this country has come down to.

Bluecat - excellent post.

And thank you to those who put me right on who the Welsh minister was. Whoever he was, he spoke with good down-to-earth common sense and an absence of rhetoric; which is what we need.

I'm glad someone else uses that word "f***wit". One of my favourites and particularly apposite in this case.

In Lebanon the PM resigned and all his government though really they couldn't do any other.

Can't see Johnson and all his governmentdoing likewise even though they caused thousands more Covid19 deaths than nessessary through sheer incompetence

And paying their mates to provide PPE that then didn't materialise or was useless.

And as for Test and Trace fiasco

This should be brought into schools for safety sake for all the children and teachers. That is morally the right thing to do.

Grany they have already said that it isn't necessary.

westendgirl

Grany they have already said that it isn't necessary.

6000 Test and Trace call centre workers have just been sacked. It would appear that it has finally been acknowledged that the system hasn't worked, although I don't know whether Serco will still be paid.

Anyway, it appears that the government got frit by all the people who were telling it that schools cannot safely open without efficient testing and tracing and have finally acted.

I'm not sure yet of the details, but government spokespeople have been making noises about promising to work with local health officials to get an efficient system working. Whether they can do that by September remains to be seen. It's what should have happened right from the start rather than wasting money, time and lives on a system which didn't work.

Not surprisingly the media isn't reporting this widely, preferring to showcase Johnson and his Nodding Dogs and their claims that schools will be safe.

The government also hasn't advertised the fact that it's urged headteachers, via their union, to make contingency plans for not opening fully and/or for being forced to close at short notice. Headteachers have been urged to upskill their staff's IT skills and to use the distance learning resources the DfE itself is funding.

I see the above as a positive move, despite trying to give out a different PR spin. Hopefully, schools will be functioning properly with minimal disruption. I'm sure the government will continue to blame anybody except itself.

westendgirl

Bluecat, absolutely splendid post.

Lemongrove I expect to be able to trust my M.P.and my P.M.
To say it is naive to do so makes me wonder what this country has come down to.

It’s the same as always has been.....only things are more transparent now ( or leaked)
The only people you should trust are close friends and family
And logically ( because it happens) even they may let you down.
I certainly wouldn’t trust a complete stranger just because he happened to be an MP ( and ambitious....as they all are.)
I knew plenty of people who trusted Jeremy Thorpe ( in Barnstaple) what a lovely decent man, they said!

Bluecat

Great post.

I can only think that the people on here who are still sticking up for Johnson don't have much of a moral compass. The Tory Party have been very good at telling the population to do one thing and doing the opposite.

Lemongrove The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.

As regards Johnson as Mayor, one of the main reasons he was elected twice were his appearances on Hignify. Most people thought what a great bloke he was and believed every utterance. They've since learned their lesson. Bendy buses, Bridges. pole dancing consultants etc etc.

trisher he has four children by his secoond wife, all now adults ..... and what is immoral about that? It seems there is one illegitimate child - what a quaint term in 2020 - and no sensational articles written about him by any women, including his first and second wives, and of course here we go again - 'allegations' of abortions. Perhaps Boris has been on a reality show telling all while I have been on the moon. I have no particular leanings to Boris or his politics, but when an MP says he never talks about his private life - and doesn't - it seems a pity that anyone else needs to. It seems a pity that anyone's private life gets chewed up on forums but - hey ho.