Is morality something you expect of others?

we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

This is simply not so. The school where I am governor used all of these strategies from the moment the children returned last term; as did all my GCs' schools.

Schools have been Keeping an open mind to all proposals and initiatives - we have trawled through many ideas and consulted widely.

I absolutely endorse the idea of a phased return - it makes total sense. But the government wants all children back in September. Some schools will go for a phased return anyway and hang the government. Quite right too - they must deal with what is right locally and in their particular circumstances.

My small rural school is lucky to have large grounds and the support of the community in making use of the community hall; but winter will present further problems when the children cannot be outside for lessons.

Schools are innovating and getting on with the job in hand - but they do not need BJ's rhetoric - they need support, financial and other advice.

Grandad , one of the problems is that school buildings differ greatly, so what would work in one place is a no go area in another.You also have to look at the age range from 3yr olds to 18 year olds. They all need different things . Elegran has noted all these things and more.Schools are doing what they can, while safeguarding.Please let's have some praise for them.
By the way wasn't it good to see a leader stand up and apologise for the dreadful errors compounded in the Scottish results, instead of making excuses and passing the buck . It must be so hard for the young pupils and their teachers but at least Nicola Sturgeon is trying to turn it round .

Dinahmo

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Lucca so Lemongrove with her comment about the French taking it in their stride isn't stereotyping?

Absolutely it was ! Sorry if I wasn’t clear

Grandad: I am afraid I have to say that constantly on this forum and others we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

Eh? I have suggested more than once that a rota system should be introduced.

Have we been truly Trumpified?

The other big barrier is of course the cash involved. Community centres, church halls and all other premises have charges for their usage. Now perhaps if the government had given schools the right to take over these places without charge there might be some action taken, as it is the negotiations involved, the unsustainable expenses and the health and safety issues all make it almost impossible. I said why not contact your MP about hand sanitiser, well there's another reason, ask for the right to use other premises without expense.

My sons school used outside teaching, using forest school teaching, teepees etc. As did all of the schools in the area.

Galaxy

My sons school used outside teaching, using forest school teaching, teepees etc. As did all of the schools in the area.

Presumably it's a primary school. I honestly can't see my local comp taking 2,300 pupils into the woods! It's usually bad enough trying to stop them nipping off behind a hedge for a ciggie (or something stronger).

Yes it is I was making the point that teaching staff have been flexible in their approach, my sons secondary used rota systems and zoom teaching.

Galaxy

Yes it is I was making the point that teaching staff have been flexible in their approach, my sons secondary used rota systems and zoom teaching.

Yes, I've heard of some innovative teaching too. Despite what a couple of posters seem to think, teachers are actually very creative and used to thinking on their feet.

Bets on for a U turn on the nation's moral duty?

There are reports that No 10 has asked England’s chief medical officer to review the evidence on coronavirus in schools. That's not what you do if you're already "following the science". I wonder if the fact that just about all scientists have been warning against what the government wants has anything to do with it!

I don't know about secondary schools nor about state schools for that matter, but yes Galaxy, it was a brilliant 6 weeks of teaching I witnessed at several schools in the summer term. Lots of outdoor learning, and church halls and sports clubs certainly didn't charge for their use. The Heads had the best of relationships with the local community before Covid, so maybe that is why.

A U-turn!! This is just one other thing that school leaders have been grappling with - moving goalposts!

Luckygirl

A U-turn!! This is just one other thing that school leaders have been grappling with - moving goalposts!

Indeed! I wonder how the government will spin it. The attempt to insist that only teachers had a moral duty has backfired, even after the media stunts yesterday. I don't know how they can live with their lies.

They tried to blame the unions, but that backfired too. The unions (teaching unions plus Unison and GMB) have insisted all along that schools should reopen for all pupils and have been issuing practical guidance for headteachers, in the absence of realistic and detailed guidelines from the government. The government doesn't have a Plan B, which is why headteachers have gone ahead and produced their own Plan Bs.

No, Grandad No-one on here has said that rotas won't work. Schools have been told NOT to have rotas but to have ALL children getting FULL-TIME education. That means NO ROTAS. Schools would do rotas, but would parents and employers be happy with them?

They have not said that using external premises won't work, but that they can't expect businesses to offer their premises for nothing when the businesses themselves are not getting enough income to survive, and the schools just don't have spare money for these unforeseen expansion expenses, or enough experienced supervisors for at least twice as many groups of teenagers as they normally have in class.

Do you remember being a teenager at school when the usual teacher was off sick and a temporary substitute had the unenviable task of supervising? You could suss out the ones without experience within ten minutes of them entering the classroom - and that was without several months at home in which to forget your classroom manners.

Do you really read the posts on here, or do you just post repeats of your own prejudices, whatever anyone else says?

Do you just like seeing how often you can repeat your mantras?

Great post Elegran and it's notjust teenagers who can suss out an easy target I've met some much younger children who knew how to wind up the newcomer. I was also thinking of all the children coming back into school who will have had a traumatic time at home, either through mistreatment or through family bereavements. They will not be in a fit state to begin learning immediately and teachers will have to cope with them, without even the comforting arm round the shoulders to help. Anyone who thinks education will just be exactly as it once was is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes the only reason I sent mine back was because he was going to staff I knew and trusted.

Schools would do rotas, but would parents and employers be happy with them?

Don’t forget the old (as we are constantly reminded of on these forums) “teachers are not childminders” Elegran . unless it’s to enable Keyworkers to go to work and then they can be .

The first Scottish schools start back today.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53722299

But Scottish schools always break up and return on different dates to English schools don’t they ? So they ate not being used as Guinea Pigs as suggested on the “face mask” thread .

Well said Elegran. I do wonder how many don't read the posts . It looks as if it must be quite a lot.
According to the Times researchers, working on the study for PHE about children returning , are unhappy with the way ministers have used the findings, which have not been fully analysed.
About turn again ?

gillybob

But Scottish schools always break up and return on different dates to English schools don’t they ? So they ate not being used as Guinea Pigs as suggested on the “face mask” thread .

I wasn't being serious.

These returning in the Scottish Borders (in my link) are a week earlier than they would normally go back.

Elegran in regard to your post @11:10 today, when a forum member reports to throwing personal comments at myself or any other forum member it is always sure sigh that they feel they lost a debate and have no real argument left to offer.

Therefore I will not enter the standard you resorted too, but to take up that you state that the teaching profession accepts such measures as rota learning, off-site learning etc. However as can be witnessed in this thread and the many others that have centred on the closure of the schools, that so-called acceptance of the above is very frequently followed by a series of obstacles stating why it will not work.

The classrooms or overall size of the school is too small, children may incur Covid-19 in the school and then infect their families at home, of-site learning will mean teachers will spend all their time travelling between learning sites are many of reasons given for why things cannot happen. The foregoing is the reason many perceive the teaching profession as just "paying lip service" to solutions brought forward while in reality many within that profession wish only to stay within its now five month old "shutdown comfort zone".

Do the education establishment really believe that employers in all other sectors in Britain have had limitless financing to solve their Covid problems, or untold amounts of space to bring about social distancing for their employees, of course they have not. What those employers have done is to establish a risk-assessed safety regime for each workplace and then commence a phased return of the staff, and work the problems as they come about.

The teaching profession requires to learn from other sectors in what they have carried out to get their operations up and running again. But of course, everyone outside of the education establishment "know nothing" according to many within that establishment. They are mere mortals and should not comment on any matter within education.

As has been stated, what is required is for the teaching profession to fully get back into the Schools, bring forward safe learning regimes for each site and then work the problems as they come about.

After five months of closure, this nation should expect nothing less for its children

Hear hear Grandad 1943 ??

Ditto lemongrove ??