Is morality something you expect of others?

Grandad1943

Apparently the government are also taking to the Health & Safety Executive in regard to schools fully reopening in September and that body has been in touch with safety organisations that regularly carry out work for the Safety Executive on a contractual basis.

In the above it is demonstrated the government's determination that ALL CHILDREN will be learning in their schools in September.

I believe also that Johnson has the overwhelming majority of the British population behind him in that determination.

So how exactly would any organisation make a classroom safe, where teenagers are crammed in so closely?

It doesn't matter how good the safety organisation is. It doesn't work.

Practical suggestions rather than empty words would be useful.

Visas have been shown not to protect the wearer.

How big are the classes in this private school Ellianne? How many pupils are there in total?

My local comprehensive school has 2300 pupils. Almost certainly, there will be a few symptomatic pupils every day. They don't have a nurse. How many would be needed to test all of them (and the staff) every day?

Yes, *trisher, sadly school nurses no longer exist in the state sector. She costs the school £50k a year.
Class sizes of 20.
It might be another world, but it is a "can do" world.

It should be available to ALL schools growstuff. I wish.

Luckygirl

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.

If, if, if. Essential industries throughout the crisis have had to overcome potential ifs and very real actual problems to keep us all supplied with food, water and energy throughout this crisis.

Does anybody think that hundreds of people working and constantly moving about on a large supermarket distribution centre can be made one hundred percent safe, of course they can not.

Those essential employees have just "got on with it" and the education profession must now adopt the same attitude or the fury of this whole nation will be very much vented down on them in September.

But school nurses aren't available. We have to deal with reality.

Maybe you should write to your MP and urge him/her to increase funding to schools.

Grandad1943

Luckygirl

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.

If, if, if. Essential industries throughout the crisis have had to overcome potential ifs and very real actual problems to keep us all supplied with food, water and energy throughout this crisis.

Does anybody think that hundreds of people working and constantly moving about on a large supermarket distribution centre can be made one hundred percent safe, of course they can not.

Those essential employees have just "got on with it" and the education profession must now adopt the same attitude or the fury of this whole nation will be very much vented down on them in September.

You said it! They're constantly moving about and they have a choice to wear a mask. School pupils will be crammed into poorly ventilated spaces in cramped conditions and will be expected to be with the same group for five hours. Even you can surely grasp the reality.

Yes, the government is hoping that the blame can be shifted to teachers, when it is responsible for the lack of realism and poor testing and tracking. Fortunately, most sensible people see through the smoke and mirrors, including scientists and the government's own advisors.

Grandad1943 I wouldn't think to speak for "the whole nation" and neither I think should you. There are a substantial number of parents who have themselves health problems or who have children with health problems. Many of these are hidden problems which for the most part don't impinge on the child's education and which most parenst and teachers take in their stride. The impact of the virus on those children and/or their parents could be disastrous. So before you start pontificating about what will happen you might consider those people and how they will be managed. Because all the indications are they won't be safe in schools. If it was your GC with a health problem you might be looking at things differently.

Johnson is abusing the word “morality” it is not a moral issue he is playing with our emotions as usual. Of course we should educate our children, this year will be different because of Covid 19, extra health precautions will be needed.

It is almost certain that an element of online education will be needed, we have had experience of that in the past few months, there is plenty of time to improve on that, so get on with it.

To expect all children to return to the classroom full time is unrealistic in my opinion

Elliann, how brave of you to talk about a private school! I'm not sure that on here they would be part of the equation !!!

Ellianne - what do you mean by 'classsize of 20?'.

If you have, as most classrooms have, 15 double desks - how does the number 20 help?

So according to the anti-government brigade schools should remain shut!!!!

Those in private schools and who’s parents can afford private tutors will be fine and dandy, those from less wealthy families just discarded to zoom classes if they are fortunate enough to have the technology and broadband. Even if the government provides laptops/tablets for each child these children are being denied an education and the haves and the have nots divide will just get wider........or is that what the unions want so they can blame it all on the government?

As for our GC one is in college in a Scandinavian country, two are in nursery and if the schools are not back properly the rest will have private tutors.

My 13 year old grandson is desperate to go back to school (a comp) as are his parents. He misses everything about school particularly his friends on a daily basis. If he could go back for a few hours each week it would be something, but not to go at all will be very challenging for him and thousands like him. He has two grownup sisters,and they,like us do their best,but it's his own friends and school environment he wants and needs not family grownups and third hand teaching which he is beginning to refuse to do! We are desperately hoping that he can return in the autumn,be it only in a reduced capacity. Grandad is quite right, parents and children will be more than disappointed if school remaims closed till?!!!!!!!

The schools have had many, many weeks to prepare for an eventual reopening. They need to incorporate safe distancing, to use all the space in the school building, identify suitable external premises, (church & village halls, library, scout hut, cricket and football pavilions, youth club all available within a two mile radius of my local school ), draw up rotas, adapt timetables and use of staff. This is what the senior management teams, governing bodies and very expensive consultants should have been doing right from the start, identifying problems and possible solutions, and I am sure many have.

But there are far too many 'educational experts', usually college lecturers who haven't taught for years, pontificating about the problems and spreading alarm and despondency instead of identifying needs and taking a positive, practical attitude to probable solutions.
If I had children of school age I would send them in tomorrow; I have already volunteered to help hear readers to catch up. This is a national crisis. Absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Minister's morals.
(I taught for years in mobiles with 36 pupils, then open plan classrooms designed for 24 pupils with 6 in the corridor 'doing activities'and no chairs, so I know what it is like.)

I agree with all your post easybee

Jabberwok I really understand that. My neighbour's teenage son is also desperate to go back to school, as are my online pupils. I don't think anybody is denying that schools' opening must be a top priority.

However, I'm being pragmatic. It's just not possible to squeeze a quart into a pint pot. I've already written that I think there's a very real possibility that there will be some kind of rota system - maybe one week on/one week off for the pupils - which would allow for half size classes and more space in classrooms. I know for a fact that certain organisations have been given grants to prepare for that kind of learning. It's beyond me why the government can't be honest and tell the public that's what will possibly happen.

Johnson's words about morality are an attempt to shift the moral responsibility to others and to undermine what Starmer has already said.

eazybee You don't appear to have much idea about the planning which has already taken place.

BTW eazybee How much do you know about how secondary schools operate? There are specific issues in secondary schools which primary schools don't have.

Is Grandad1943 still pontificating about the miserable failure of the entire teaching profession? I thought that one had been flogged to death.

I agree Davidhs, education is an emotive topic, second only to health and welfare. Maybe Boris should have said something like, "We have a collective responsibility to get the children back to school in September." He was stupid to say "a moral duty".
I only talk about private schools to illustrate what I perceive as a more "can do" attitude. Believe me teachers in the independent sector are under great pressure too, (from their customers), to deliver. These customers are often far far quicker to complain and blame than those in the state sector, so I was giving an example of how sometimes we just have to suck it and see. The reopening of schools might not be as catastrophic as some seem to think. Words like "disastrous" do nothing to engender confidence or positivity.

No, GrannyGravy, I don't think schools should remain shut. I think they should open as safely as they can, which will mean that secondary schools will almost certainly not be able to stay open full time for all pupils. It's just not feasible, so schools should offer as much as they can on site and provide the rest by distance learning. The government needs to stop promising the impossible.

There is no doubt at all that school leaders will do absolutely everything they can to organise things so that children - they want them back!

It is no good criticising the use of "ifs" as though this is something negative. Our job (I am a school governor) is to look at the "ifs" and try to create contingency plans for these very real possibilities.

I had forgotten that Grandad1943 enjoys taking a pop at schools and school leaders, or I would not have wasted my time posting here.

A sensible discussion on the subject has to take account of the potential pitfalls and make the proper plans, which is exactly what school leaders are doing right now. If we did not do so, we would be rightly criticised.

Looking for these pitfalls is not copping out or thinking negatively; it is just plain common sense.

I am sure that these are just the sort of discussions that Grandad1943's beloved industry heads have been having too. And quite right.

Ellianne It's not so much a "can do" attitude as a "have more" reality.