More immigrants crossing the Channel

Most of the desperate people, fleeing hostility, starvation & war should find refuge in a country where they feel safe. My father was a refugee. Scaremongers like that self serving bit of nastiness Farage stirs up false fear in people, in the same way Hitler & his cronies did in Germany. It is a disgrace that this once proud nation has become so inward looking and fearful of difference.

Most of us aren’t fearful of difference as you put it PEGS just fearful of the implications of potentially millions of extra people wishing to settle here from various countries in the Middle East and Africa for example.

Just how many millions more can a tiny country like ours accommodate?

That is the problem and it is nothing whatsoever to do with racism.

And the dreadful story relayed by Firecracker just shows how careful we have to be with who we allow in.

A terrible story and shameful that it was hushed up.

JenniferEccles, you asked ‘Just how many millions more can a tiny country like ours accommodate?’

U.K. area 242,495 square km, population 6,786,004
(Refugees 126720) (we don’t even have one million yet)

Jordan area 88,342 square km, population 10,658,123
(Refugees 747000)

I think we have room for a few more.

I think the UK population is 67 million, not 6.7 million

Pantglas2

Africa and Middle East population 1,500,000,000 approximately. If only 10% leave to claim asylum in Europe that’s 150 million spread over 10 countries (arguably as they only want to go to the wealthiest) - how s that managed?

The above was posted earlier by me David and not one of the hand wringing posters has come back with a solution, probably still working on a plan......?

As you’ve posted that Britain isn’t doing enough Geekesse, would you like comment on the above?

I thought when I posted that I’d be inundated by the educated classes on how my figures were wrong, my opinion fascist and dismissed as uneducated and racist. The silence has been deafening.....

Look, I’m a bad person to ask. I believe in open borders with no limitations whatsoever. So the question about ‘how’s that managed’ doesn’t really operate. I’d like to live in a world where you or I could go anywhere in the world without restrictions, and I’d extend that right to all human beings.

The majority of Arabic speaking refugees from the Middle East and Africa tend to prefer going to Arab countries, which is why Jordan, Lebanon and formerly Syria had so many refugees. Wealthier Arab countries who have the space and economy to be more welcoming to refugees are rigidly unwelcoming - Saudi has fewer than 2000, the UAE fewer than 200. I think that we Europeans ought to be better than that.

(And yes, that was a typo in my last post)

I believe we need to offer sanctuary to people who are fleeing persecution. I also believe we need immigrants who are qualified and able to work in the UK. But I don’t believe totally open borders would be a good thing, here in the UK, or anywhere else. Clearly if that were the case there would be millions of people who would unsticks and simply arrive wherever they wanted to go, and they would choose wealthy countries with many benefits such as free education and free healthcare, and social benefits for those that have no skills.
It may well be an accident of birth, but there are plenty of people here who are disadvantaged because of an accident of birth, and we must address that. No country can take in everyone from the rest of the world who dimply decides they’d like a slice of whatever their chosen destination they has to offer.

I do think we have to be more understanding of the conditions these people are fleeing from. We need them too. From doctors and nurses, to architects and businesses men, to farmers and fruit pickers.

If they are allowed to apply for a temporary residency and work permit while their applications are processed so much the better. At least if they are in the ‘system’ and they commit serious offences then they can be deported and not allowed back in.

What is the matter with Patel?

She has the temerity to blame so called “activist lawyers“ for advising the those seeking refuge.

These lawyers are following the rule of law.

What is she doing?

My god she is a pain in the ass.

We should allow people to work whilst their asylum applications are processed.
The death in Glasgow of the Ugandan refugee whilst her infant starved is shameful.

Iam64

We should allow people to work whilst their asylum applications are processed.
The death in Glasgow of the Ugandan refugee whilst her infant starved is shameful.

I saw that. I couldn’t believe that something like that could happen!

Where on Earth is our humanity?

You would have to be made of stone to not feel pity and compassion for people fleeing horrors in their homeland. A couple of years ago much was being made of our seeming inability to accept Syrian refugee children, and Marcus Brigstock was on the radio urging the government to accept 3,000 children, and 'get them into good schools, and get them fed well' The problem was, as with every other altruistic intention, where they were going to go when they got here. There are not enough foster parents for the needs of the indigenous population , schools have portakabins in their playgrounds, the NHS is creaking at the seams and - exactly what are we to do with people who are traumatised, and needing mental health care, when already sufferers are waiting months for appointments?
I don't know what the answer is but I can't help but feel cries of 'let all the refugees in' is a good hearted, well meant but impossible demand.

The rundown infrastructure you describe, Rosina, is the result of political decisions made on the economy by tory governments over the last decade.

There is absolutely no reason why the state should not invest in improving schools, the Health Service, associated MH services and social housing. In fact, with the looming prospect of high unemployment when the furlough scheme comes to an end it would make sense for the state to offer meaningful employment to the newly unemployed (perhaps with opportunities for retraining) to make good the depredations of 'austerity.

Do not be fooled by anyone who tries to say that the state 'can't afford it'. We can and we should.

Pantglas2

Africa and Middle East population 1,500,000,000 approximately. If only 10% leave to claim asylum in Europe that’s 150 million spread over 10 countries (arguably as they only want to go to the wealthiest) - how s that managed?

The above was posted earlier by me David and not one of the hand wringing posters has come back with a solution, probably still working on a plan......?

Thank the Lord- someone has come back with a plan, MaizieD!

Given my rather low guesstimate of how many would come, how long would it take to manage/integrate those figures? Also, looking forward, how could any increased migration which would inevitably follow, be successfully absorbed?
Would there be a time when the gates would close?

Rosina
That just about sums it up.

Surely more should be done to support poor countries and their populations, stop selling arms and instead give more directed aid. Join with other countries to stop the traffickers. But no I bet people who moan about giving foreign aid and cooperating with other countries are also the ones who moan about refugees.

vegansrock

Surely more should be done to support poor countries and their populations, stop selling arms and instead give more directed aid. Join with other countries to stop the traffickers. But no I bet people who moan about giving foreign aid and cooperating with other countries are also the ones who moan about refugees.

Well, we used to have a rather highly admired Foreign Aid department which did that sort of thing but in his efforts to give the voters what he thinks they want (because so many moaned about the miniscule amount of our national budget that was going to foreigners) the lovely Boris abolished it and foreign aid is now subsumed into the Foreign Office. Where it will be quietly forgotten...

I think your figures are a fantasy, Pantglas. Others have responded on this thread, haven't they?

Which figures exactly MaizieD? Population or my conservative 10% estimate?

And no, apart from one person who believed in unlimited migration with no plan on managing it, folks seemed to have no answer.

No more than I have, I hasten to add but I did think that those who know more about these things would have some suggestions.

vegansrock

Surely more should be done to support poor countries and their populations, stop selling arms and instead give more directed aid. Join with other countries to stop the traffickers. But no I bet people who moan about giving foreign aid and cooperating with other countries are also the ones who moan about refugees.

I agree vegansrock but there are also those who think we should give less aid.

I agree with Rosina. We are a wealthy country and should help these people in their own countries but not allow them to come here with all the problems that entails. Otherwise let them come and help them until they are able to return. You can't just expect to walk into another country.

We are in no position to help, as just one example, the people of Syria. How would you honestly, genuine question, do that?

I'm not sure but by allowing anyone to come here will inevitably change the face of Britain. It's a question of too many too fast as has been said before.

...will inevitably change the face of Britain.

What? Make it too black, do you mean?

Have you perhaps stopped to consider that a great many of these refugees/asylum seekers want to come here because Britain has helped to change the face of their countries? With wars, perhaps, or selling arms to 'the other side' to bomb them with...