on both sides of the pond- the extreme left is scuppering their own cause

Brexit will be completed by January 2021. Being a Leaver or Remainer will become irrelevant. What will be relevant is whether the Conservatives deliver on their promises over the next four years and whether Brexit turns out as people had expected. I have no doubt the Conservatives will throw a few sweeteners at strategic areas, but it depends whether it's enough, especially in a post-Covid world. People could very easily become disillusioned with their new allegiance.

If the LibDems get their act together, they could take back some of the LD/Conservative marginals. Brexit will no longer be an issue, but there are already signs that some traditional Conservatives are becoming disillusioned with Johnson in particular.

Current 16 and 18 year olds won't forget their exam results.

Four years is a long time.

Well, I live in the same constituency as Galaxy and just about all the Labour voters I know voted Remain.

But.... they do all tend to be middle class professionals...

In the real world- 1000s of traditional Labour voters voted Conservative for the first time ever.

I am in the real world trisher and in the constituency that laura pidcock lost the feedback is much better than at any time in the last few years. And for people to be saying they dont want people to vote labour us beyond self indulgence. Please ignore growstuff it's the last railing against the dying of the 'light'

keep on insulting us - and take responsibility for your actions.
It was generations of Labour voters that won the election for Johnson, aka ERG and Cummings- and it will be the biggest own goal ever- not just for the Labour Party, left, right, middle or floating - but for all. On your conscience be it

Last post- as it is too depressing- I despair.

Every single family I worked with in one of the most deprived areas of the north east was better off under Blair than Johnson. This is not a game.

Please can someone explain to me how Keir Starmer a confirmed Remainer and part of the Westminster elite will gain back the Labour heartland seats, because I can't see those people voting for him. He may have his fan club on GN but in the real world?

growstuff

I take that as an admission that you would rather have a Conservative government than a Labour government not to your liking.

You're not doing a very good job of selling your party to a floating voter.

Could well be the the Labour Party and entire movement will do better without "floating voters" such as yourself growstuff. ?

Iam64

MaizieD I can't help but believe there are many who claim to be lifelong LP supporters and voters who prefer to have a Conservative party in government than a Labour Party that isn't pure enough for them.

Well, we financed and supported Tony Blair long enough and he certainly was not "pure Labour" especially in his later years.

We all know how that so called Labour government ended with Zero Hour Contracts, Gig economy Employment, The Iraq War and the financial Crash of 2008.

It was working Families that paid with their jobs and their homes for all the above, and that will not happen again by being paid for by the union subscriptions of those same working people.

Ever heard of Pupil Premium?

PPS. The old Liberal Party achieved quite a lot - the welfare state for starters. Ever heard of the Beveridge Report?

PS. I voted Labour in 2015 because I was so disgusted with what the LibDems had done, so just grow up and leave the name-calling to the toddlers.

I take that as an admission that you would rather have a Conservative government than a Labour government not to your liking.

You're not doing a very good job of selling your party to a floating voter.

varian

I don't think Grandad has answered the question growstuff

It's the answer that growsuff is going to get and that is it.

And I do not answer questions on demand from anyone especially two Liberal "flip-floppers whose party has never achieved anything with the exception of selling all it's supporters down the river to obtain power for a few in the party by way of a dubious Coalition with the Tory party.

MaizieD I can't help but believe there are many who claim to be lifelong LP supporters and voters who prefer to have a Conservative party in government than a Labour Party that isn't pure enough for them.

I wish to see a Labour government with the policies that Corbyn brought forward in the period of his leadership.

That would include an end to Zero Hours Employment Contracts.

The end of Gig Economy terms of employment.

Total Reform of the rented housing sector.

A huge national council house building program.

The abolition of the anti-trade union legislation brought in over the last forty years of Tory governments

That sounds like 'Yes to another 5 years of tories' to me, Grandad

Though some of it may well be popular I cannot see many people voting for repeal of the anti-trade union legislation. I think that that alone would be enough to keep Labour out.

Its not complicated is it. Its unlikely that by the next election the LP will have any other leader than Keir Starmer. the Conservatives will probably have Johnson but may have an alternative like Rishi Sumak. Many of us who are traditional Labour voters and some who are floating voters say we will vote LP under Starmer.
Those who say they'd prefer the LP to have a more left leaning leader - which party do you want to see win the election>

Meanwhile on the other side of the pond Bernie Sanders has wholeheartedly endorsed Joe Biden's choice of Kamala Harris for VP.

varian

I don't think Grandad has answered the question growstuff

He never does!

I don't think Grandad has answered the question growstuff

growstuff

Given a binary choice Grandad which would you prefer:

1 A Labour Party in government with Starmer as PM

or

2 Another five years of a Conservative government after the next election?

I wish to see a Labour government with the policies that Corbyn brought forward in the period of his leadership.

That would include an end to Zero Hours Employment Contracts.

The end of Gig Economy terms of employment.

Total Reform of the rented housing sector.

A huge national council house building program.

The abolition of the anti-trade union legislation brought in over the last forty years of Tory governments

However, first and foremost the right-wing within the Parliamentary Labour Party has to be brought in line with the aims and democratic objectives of the broader labour movement in Great Britain. Never again can it be seen that any faction within the Labour movement can work against it's elected leader and the policies of that movement.

However, by Starmer refusing to suspend those employees alleged to have carried out the above from their employment while the internal investigation is underway, he has ensured that the divisions will grow deeper in the relations between the Parliamentary Party and the broader movement in the country no matter what conclusions that investigation may draw.

Nothing short of the total structural, organisational and financial reform of the Labour Party will see it accomplish any form of internal unity and with that may come ballot box success.

I would prefer a true socialist Labour Party, led by someone who is able to speak out and condemn the very real problems in this country who didn't just confine their speeches to PMQT but showed real zeal and committment. GN may have a lot of supporters for KS but where is there any indication that he will appeal to the wider public, that the lost Labour heartlands will cme back to him? If he can't convince members of the party how on earth will he convince the wider electorate? It's no use blaming left wingers for the inadequacies of this leader.

Same question as Growstuff.

Because that is the only choice you've got. Shoot yourself in the foot, the heart, the head - and the country too. On your conscience be it- many will never forgive you.

Another term ot Tories will finish the destruction of our Democracy and NHS, and so much more.

I don't think they'll need another term to destroy our democracy. They're well on the way now. They've completely bypassed Parliament or having them vote to curtail their own powers, and they're turning their attention to the judiciary. They want to abolish the Supreme Court and to stop the use of judicial review of government actions.

I doubt if we'll even have an election in 2024...

varian

We need a whole new political system - starting with a review of political funding and a democratic voting system.

Does anyone know whether Kier Starmer is in favour of Proportional Representation?

It doesn't matter. We're stuck with the system as it is and have to play the system.