Get back to the office! But why?

People need interaction with other people, not necessarily colleagues.

Correct! Some of my colleagues I don't miss one little bit! Some of my colleagues I do miss and will be meeting up with them in October. But they're not the total sum of my human interaction!

MissAdventure

Perhaps places like Costa could cater for people having work related meetings?

Good idea! I used to tutor a student in a coffee shop and I was quite surprised how many other "guests" were doing the same or having meetings. It was a convenient city centre meeting place.

Chewbacca

^People need interaction with other people, not necessarily colleagues.^

Correct! Some of my colleagues I don't miss one little bit! Some of my colleagues I do miss and will be meeting up with them in October. But they're not the total sum of my human interaction!

I was thinking that too. The time saved commuting means that people could meet up with people you actually like or share an interest with.

sodapop

I agree ayse there must be some middle way which rejuvenates town centres etc. Part time working from home and part of the time in the office.
All government depts should get back to work even in a part time capacity. There are of course many groups of people for whom working from home is not an option.

HMRC have people working from home - if they can do it why not other government departments?

A lot of threads on loneliness, bereavement, even ghosting, mention that a fair few work friends are really just that.
They fade away, lose touch, when you no longer spend 8 hours a day working together.

I think we need a sense of proportion here as there needs to be a balance. Working from home can be a skivers charter for a significant minority of workers equally many offices are not suitable for social distancing space.. Many people were 'working' from home but also trying to home school children at the same time. Patently you can not do both properly at the same time. One person's flexibilty is often someone else's constraint It is mainly office workers that have the option of working from home but many feel isolated and unsupported and many employers have been concerned with drops in productivity. As others have said, it could lead to jobs moving out of cities or even out if the country. We've all seen the consequences of out of town retail on many town centres. Is this what the majority of people want? I doubt it.

DHbworksnin London as a civil servant. They have shown that they can do the job effectively from home, and with 2 hours of commuting by public transport each way, (when the trains run to time?l he has no plans to return to his office. I suspect that any pressure to do so will hasten his retirement.

My son has saved money from petrol and a minimum of 2 hours a day in travel so he is not keen to return to the office. His wife works in the same place so she is of a similar mindset. That 2 hours has given them more time with their son and the change has been phenomenal.
Although there are obvious tensions being together 24/7, the bonuses more than make up for it. Before lockdown there was talk of their autistic son not being able to manage his start in school next week but his nursery are now confident that his progress has been so good that he will not struggle. It has really made me reflect upon how things are hampered by both parents having to work long hours; the impact on society is going to be so harmful.
My son is easily distracted and my DIL's work means that her concentration levels need to be high which is hard in an open plan office. The company they work for are getting more efficient staff with them working from home.

That really is an excellent example of how quality of life has improved.

growstuff

*that wonderful after work life that I remember from working in London will be diminished, to be expected, sadly*

I worked in Fleet Street when all the national dailies were there. The print rooms were open 24/7 and it was indeed an amazing culture. You could be chatting to a famous journalist one minute, be eating in a "greasy spoon" cafe the next and then going to listen to a band jamming in a pub ... and rolling home a bit worse for wear on the tube!

Those days are, alas, long gone!

I worked in central London and the Fleet street area for around 20 years from 1966 and have fond memories of life back then. 5 years spent in a new office building just behind fleet Street, before the papers moved out. Prior to that 5 years in Charterhouse, a very different environment.

In the Clerkenwell/Farringdon Road, Smithfield area there were all sorts of small businesses which are long gone. My OH remembers going to clock repairer where there was someone who would blow a domed glass clock face whilst you wait. I remember going to another specialist shop to get
something called green copperas and the old boy who served me managed to get me to say green copper arse before he acknowledged what I wanted.

The London of those days was an amazing place to live and work.

I feel sorry for the people working in businesses like Pret and Costa's but not particularly for the companies themselves. Things change and new businesses will move in.

As someone wrote on a different thread, perhaps the office blocks can be transformed into apartments. Not for families because we've seen what happens to families living in tower blocks with children.

Furret

Just to be clear gilly are you saying that those who can and those who want to and those whose employers are happy with working from home should not be encourage to?

Or do you think that because some people have no option but to go into their work place then everyone else should,

Most of my family, teachers, doctors, a social worker and a bus driver have no option. But my son can and does work from home and has done for years. None of the rest of the family begrudge him this privilege.

Just to be clear * Furret* . I don’t really care what some employers choose to do . Not my problem but to be even clearer , those working from home ( or having showers, walking their dogs or whatever ) shouldn’t be too surprised when their job is outsourced to India .

I have split my working week between office and home. It works well and as others have said, it does not have to be either/or. Accommodation for staff is a big cost to the NHS organisation I work for and not having all staff into the workplace can only help.

gillybob

Furret

Just to be clear gilly are you saying that those who can and those who want to and those whose employers are happy with working from home should not be encourage to?

Or do you think that because some people have no option but to go into their work place then everyone else should,

Most of my family, teachers, doctors, a social worker and a bus driver have no option. But my son can and does work from home and has done for years. None of the rest of the family begrudge him this privilege.

Just to be clear * Furret* . I don’t really care what some employers choose to do . Not my problem but to be even clearer , those working from home ( or having showers, walking their dogs or whatever ) shouldn’t be too surprised when their job is outsourced to India .

If a job can be outsourced for less money, it doesn’t matter where it is being done. The company won’t distinguish between home/office work.

People are units of cost and that is all that matters at the end of the year.

Chewbacca

^Who are the people who work in most of London's coffee bars?^

There is a world outside of London you know! Smaller, regional towns that have a mix of offices, light industry and retail and it's these smaller towns that employ people from all demographics and they will be just as badly affected as inner cities. The retaile industry was already struggling before COVID and with so many office workers no longer travelling into the town centres, they'll be hit again.

There wouldn't be the same need in small towns as you've described for people to work from home. There will be many people who will continue to go out to work.

I suspect it's mainly the people who have to commute to any large city that would prefer to work from home. I remember sitting in a train on the way home to Suffolk from London with a book and a g & t and thinking I should be at Ipswich station soon. I looked out of the window to see hundreds of car lights and realised that we were stationery over the M25.

The rail network has had difficulties coping with the volume of traffic. On the London to Norwich line, most of the way there's only one line going in each direction. Many's the time when the Inter City that I used was held up because of stopping trains ahead of it.

So the argument seems to be just because some workers can’t work from home no one should - this seems to be an inappropriate “one size fits all“ policy. However, the nature of workplaces differ. Not everyone works in an office or can wfh, but we are discussing those that do. Surely flexibility is the way forward. Maybe the single young twenty somethings who spend money in bars and gyms would prefer being in an office environment, whereas some older employees who have family responsibilities, space at home or who have a long commute would prefer to wfh at least past of the week. My youngest son and his wife certainly have been working longer hours at home, because they have saved 2 hours per day of unpleasant commuting. Many of the jobs could not be outsourced to India or the Philippines, unlike call centre jobs ( many of those not a success) . As to the unfortunate employees of Pret and the like, certainly in London, almost all seem to be young Eastern European student types, and I wonder how many employees of such establishments would be looking to stay there as a long term career.

If you can work from home then why not. Pressure is being put on the Government by their 'sponsers' who donate large amounts of money to support them. Without the rents coming in from commercial properties many of the donors are going to find they can't afford to continue doing this, especially the Chinese and Russian and Saudi funders behind most of the commercial developments in the UK. There will be no need for the HS2 or mega motorways if people continue to work from home either, again huge investments have been made by the multi millionaires and overseas investors all looking for way to keep making money from the commuting workers here. Empty commercial properties could be reclaimed for housing, this would keep the building trades employed, help the companies associated with building as bricks, metalwork, paint, wiring, glass will all be needed to renovate such buildings. There would be no need for anyone to be homeless. A lot of these businesses who are pressuring the Government to order people back to work avoid paying UK taxes as much as possible, in some cases entirely successfully, unlike the little local cafe or sandwich shop who have no choice in the matter. These little local businesses are the ones we need to support. Better quality of life for families and everyone who no longers needs to commute for hours.

If jobs could be outsourced overseas, that's what will happen. Employers might think twice if they think they could keep the jobs in the UK more cheaply by having employees work at home.

Some call centre jobs have actually been repatriated because it wasn't a huge success.

Jobs can only go overseas if there are the personnel to do them. It's not only call centre jobs which can be done at home. In many cases, the kind of skills needed aren't available overseas. For example, I know of a number of lawyers who are now home-based with visits to the "office" or another meeting place when customer contact is needed. Those people need knowledge of the British (including Scottish) legal system, which is probably not available overseas. The same is true of insurance or other financial services, which can be highly specialised and specific to the UK.

During lockdown my Mother passed away in a nursing home. Dealing remotely with doctors and funeral directors was bad enough, but the worst was dealing with her banks and savings companies. I could sit for over an hour to have my telephone calls answered, and then most of the people who picked up the phone were blatantly uninterested or unsympathetic. Many couldn't get through to view my Mother's accounts as obviously the secure links which would be available in the office, weren't available in their homes. The letters sent were just cut and pasted - in one case the customer service was so poor that I complained and got compensation and a proper apology.
I've read all the posts and there seems to be a general attitude of "I'm alright Jack" with some people - great that people are saving hundreds of pounds a month in travel. I know a taxi driver whose desperate for customers, office cleaners with no work, cafes, shops, dry cleaners who have had to lay off staff, self employed art teachers with no income for six months and hairdressers etc.
I despair. And the number of people who are happy to go out for Rishi's cheap meal deals but wont sit on a bus or train to go to work. Thank heavens for all the folk who have kept us going - supermarket staff including those behind the scenes ensuring the shelves are filled, delivery drivers, postal staff, gas, electricity and telecom employees as well as the NHS - there are many more of course. Rant over.

How on earth does people who can work from home working from home affect the drivers nurses etc, I am a key worker it is better for me if people who can work from home. Why on earth would I care whether Bob down the street works from his home or gets on a train.

1984 George Orwell comes to mind; a prophet?

Moving on, there are several references from people about the much higher statistics relating to people returning to the offices in other European countries. Few if any of these highlight the fact that increases in Covid cases in those countries have also increased.........

Apart from the fact that I have not been at work for a long time due to illness, my Company have allowed their staff to work at home where they were once so against it. They have discovered that staff are more proactive and are happy with the home working and home life balance. Their large office is not in full use and at times was almost empty and as our department hot desked none of us are happy to go back into an office environment. I am due to return to work soon and will be working at home. I am lucky enough to have room for a desk in the spare room but if I did not have the room I would still choose to work from home and keep safe.
I do feel for the companies that rely on the passing commuters who pick up their coffees and sandwiches and such like. Many of our staff started taking their own packed lunches and snacks as 'lunch' shopping started to get expensive. BJ and his cronies need to think further ahead that the current'get back into office'. The virus is still out there and the impact on the country should we go back into lockdown will have far more consequences than some sandwich chains having to make changes, harsh as it is.

I am truly shocked at the negative reactions to this question and yet again let's 'dish the government' there is another way of looking at this situation I am retired now but did enjoy the luxury of the odd day working from home but any more than that I missed the interaction/ structure & connection of being with & seeing my colleagues even if it was a very quick 'hi how are you' I think even before Covid-19 we were becoming a very isolated society always in such a hurry to get home & close the door I used to ask myself why?
I did find too many distractions & structure went out the window within the home working environment meant actually working longer hours simply because too easy have stopped for extra cups of tea, pick the children up, online shopping etc etc

A problem highlighted on this thread is no work or office space at home. How many of us had en-suite bathroom facilities even a few years ago? How many had wet rooms, walk in robes or utility rooms? Now all pretty standard in new homes or renovated older homes. We can and will adapt. Open minds and willingness.

I doubt very much if the government gives two hoots for the people who actually work in the sandwich bars, etc. I suspect they care more about the commercial property owners and the shareholders of Costa, etc.

Scrumptious

I am truly shocked at the negative reactions to this question and yet again let's 'dish the government' there is another way of looking at this situation I am retired now but did enjoy the luxury of the odd day working from home but any more than that I missed the interaction/ structure & connection of being with & seeing my colleagues even if it was a very quick 'hi how are you' I think even before Covid-19 we were becoming a very isolated society always in such a hurry to get home & close the door I used to ask myself why?
I did find too many distractions & structure went out the window within the home working environment meant actually working longer hours simply because too easy have stopped for extra cups of tea, pick the children up, online shopping etc etc

I guess people are different. I have always been better at working at home than I ever was in an open-plan office with colleagues around me. I was the same at university. I couldn't work effectively in a library, but I could just get my head down and get the job done when I was at home .