Get back to the office! But why?

Grandad1943

I believe that we are in danger of creating even wider divisions in society when it comes to the world of work.

Britain will have those who have to physically attend their workplace to carry out their duties. Then we may well have those who are able to work from home who, as is now beginning to happen, will appear to those physically in the workplace as being evasive and elusive and out of touch and reach.

Ever wider divisions is not a good prospect for Britain and therefore the utopia that some feel will come about. Thankfully those working from home will rapidly decline with the schools now fully reopening. That will allow employers to request many more to return to their workplaces over the coming weeks.

Some, if not many, of those that are not requested to return may find eventually they are the ones not required at all in the fullness of time.

I don’t think that is quite right, employers aren’t requesting their staff to go back to the office. Or at least I suppose the more skilled workforce. They are more than happy for them to continue to work at home.

It seems those whose presence in an office is necessary and those employers who lack trust in their employees are keen to
to see them back, but that is all.

I think we are talking about two different workforces.

PECS

We have to find some benefits from the enforced slow down. There are winners & losers in all situations. Pret and other similar companies enjoyed huge growth and good profits from the travelling public. Now I see our local butcher , fish shop & green grocer enjoying an increase in custom as people's lives kept them local, less dependent on late shopping at supermarkets ... Many people have made good use of their commute time and found home working beneficial. I know that won't apply to all but even big companies are spotting advantages.

Some of our local retailers and restaurants did very well out of lockdown because they offered a home delivery service and raised their profile. Apparently, many people are sticking with them.

Yes we used a fruit supplier and the milkman and have continued with them, I have a lot more disposable income due to less commuting and less Starbucks, costa, that money goes to local tradesmen, local restaurants etc.

It's a much more healthy way of living.

Love this

Johnson’s new mantra

Leave home

Forget the NHS

Save Pret

Grandad have you seen the guardian article calling on the unions to oppose the call to return to the office.

Maybe there will be a shift from city centres to local areas. People will still be spending - just on different things. Services will adapt to change just as they always have. There has always been a divide between office based workers and those who who are in services such as hospitals, delivery or construction industries etc where most workers have to be physically present. If workers are just as productive at home then there is no reason to force them back into an overcrowded office. It’s not for everyone, so maybe we are just entering a more flexible era.

Whitewavemark2vin regard to your post @20:24 today many of the most highly skilled persons in Britains workforce are physically working in their workplace and have been throughout this crisis. To take just one industry that I have been involved with for many years, transport and Distribution you have vehicle technicians, distribution centre systems control operators, lgv drivers, logistics control operators, supervisors, forklift drivers along with many more.

Thankfully the Covid crisis has demonstrated to all who really keeps Britain going on an everyday bases. Also thankfully, the crisis has also demonstrated who the country and companies have found that can be done without for protracted periods of time while control of operations has been passed to persons much closer to the shop floor.

By example to the above, M&S announced that the very large number of redundancies they declared this week will very largely be made from within their head office staff who are largely working from home at present. Other companies have announced similar in past weeks which I feel comprehensively demonstrates that companies feel that leaner management carried out among the skilled employees at shop floor level is indeed the future.

If that does prove to be the extensive case that can only be a good thing for a more productive communicative and equal Britain.

I think that employers who cling to the idea that people have to be where they can be supervised may well find that they struggle to get staff, as anyone with a choice may prefer to work for a more enlightened company.

Clearly people in sectors such as manufacturing will have to go in, but with adaptations most people will be able to work from home for at least part of the week.

There will be a reshuffle, and possibly a re-ordering of occupations, just as the design of houses may adapt to new ways of working, so that instead of working as I did, on the sofa with a laptop, both partners/spouses will have their own designated workspace, even if it is an alcove somewhere.

We have been through several seismic shifts in lifestyle before (enclosures forcing people to become 'workers', the Industrial Revolution, mechanisation of factories etc) and things settled down afterwards. There will have been winners and losers amongst those caught up in the maelstrom; but the difference this time is that this is global. Previously, it was groups of people - miners, mill workers, peasant farmers - who were directly involved, but now it is everyone, so if we pull together we could all benefit. Again, though, that would take vision, and a government with the will to do it.

If that does prove to be the extensive case that can only be a good thing for a more productive communicative and equal Britain.

How about all the people who are going to lose their jobs, *Grandad? It looks to me as though the jobs market is actually about to shrink quite radically. While I have no desire to see redundant jobs being perpetuated just for the sake of it I do wonder if these jobs will ever be replaced by jobs in different sectors.

How would you feel about your 'productive communicative and equal Britain' actually being a very high unemployment Britain (which would eliminate 'equal' for a start...)?

I have to stress that I am not unsympathetic to your assertion that 'leaner management' could be carried out nearer to shop floor level.

Also M & S are doing that because they are facing serious problems, they are shutting stores as well, and deferring any pay rises, it's not just management who will lose their jobs.

How about all the people who are going to lose their jobs, *Grandad? It looks to me as though the jobs market is actually about to shrink quite radically. While I have no desire to see redundant jobs being perpetuated just for the sake of it I do wonder if these jobs will ever be replaced by jobs in different sectors.

This is what's worrying me too. As I said in my post @ 17.55 today, there are many ancillary workers who support offices who's jobs will be severely compromised by such a seismic shift in working patterns. It's not just retail that will suffer; engineers who service offices in various capacities will be affected.

And Grandad your dismal outlook on the self discipline of staff who work from home is seriously out of touch. In the 18 years I've worked for my employers, I've known of only 1 employee who worked from home that abused the privilege.

This is what's worrying me too. As I said in my post @ 17.55 today, there are many ancillary workers who support offices who's jobs will be severely compromised by such a seismic shift in working patterns. It's not just retail that will suffer; engineers who service offices in various capacities will be affected.

Of course, with my strange left wing views it is my opinion that the state should massively invest in infrastructure work which needs to be done but which has been neglected for ideological reasons, AKA 'austerity'. There would be opportunities to engage skills made redundant by the shrinking of the 'central office' culture and to retrain in new skills. With people in employment and earning the small ancillary service businesses would still have customers, though they may have to relocate.

I cannot see how the economy can be refocussed in a different direction from the model which is now becoming redundant without a massive stimulus from state investment. I don't think we can rely on private enterprise to supply the necessary investment and vision.

I wonder how Grandad would view this?

M&S have indeed stated that stores will close but in many cases, those workers will be offered employment other stores that are remaining open. However, employees whose jobs at head office have been declared redundant will only be offered loss of job consultation as per current employment regulations.

Britain is undoubtedly entering a period of high unemployment due to the Covid Crisis. As a Labour movement supporter, I feel that this Conservative government has by way of the furlough scheme protected the living standards of nine million employees very well.

However, whether the same government will be prepared to protect the living standards of many of those same persons as they become unemployed is yet to be seen.

There are unavoidably very hard times ahead especially with a no-deal Brexit on the horizon. That stated to withdraw from the European Union was the democratic vote and I accept that, and as a nation, we can only make the best of what is to come.

I see you don't care for my idea, then, Grandad. You'd rather have all the soon to be unemployed on benefits than have them employed in meaningful state funded work?

Grandad w

Oops. Grandad when a store chain starts this trajectory it's never a good outlook for any of its workers.

In regard to those concerned in regard to the jobs of support workers too much reduced central offices of companies, the work of HR departments etc is already being transferred out to contract companies for them to deal with.

By example to the above, a highly qualified industrial safety rep is now to join our company from the aerospace industry. He will be carrying out very simular work for us as he did for his previous company but in multiple companies instead of the single one he worked for.

We are extremely pleased to have recruited him and his added expertise along with our own will enable us to grow our company further.

When one door closes in employment and commerce another nearly always opens and in that we now require extra employees, support companies and employees to us.

The Covid-19 crisis has changed the world. That crisis combined with Brexit will change Britain even more. Many as demonstrated by this thread have yet to come to terms with that fact.

However, Britain is now in a period of radical change, and that has to be faced by all.

It seems like a bit of a power trip doesn't it - instructions from on high that are changed from one day to the next. It's no wonder some people are confused, some are sceptical and some are quite frankly distrustful of almost everything now.

If companies are OK with people working from home some or all of the week, I can't see how - after imploring people to "stay safe" and not to put "others at risk" - suddenly everyone is expected to toe the line and return like sheep to work.

Personally, if I were still working, I would probably have quite liked working from home for at least two days a week, but I would have wanted to go into work also. Having no division from work and home five days a week doesn't sound very appealing to me - and there is also a social aspect to work.

I feel enormously sorry for the small businesses - such as cafes and restaurants - who are suffering because their customer base has diminished so much. However, I do think it rather odd that we should base our economy so heavily on selling services to one another, rather than on selling goods and expertise to other countries while also employing enough skilled people to ensure that our health, education and general social infrastructure is robust enough to keep our population healthy, happy and well educated.

One downside of working from home is that, in the long-term, this could cause physical problems. Most offices are equipped with proper work stations, ergonomically designed chairs designed to support the musculoskeletal system so that neck and back pain and other physical problems are minimised.

For many people, working from home means sitting on a dining chair at a table, hunched over a laptop. Many homes do not have separate offices or studies with the correct type of chair and desk set at the correct level and distance, or even the room to accommodate a proper chair or chairs especially if more than one person in the family works from home.

I do foresee that many people may be suffering from physical problems in future if working from home becomes the norm.

There would be nothing wrong with just selling services to each other, if we didn't import anything, but of course we do and that's not going to change. It keeps money flowing and redistributes it (although not always in the right places or fairly).

As a country, we should look at what we have that we can sell to other people. On the whole, that's not tangible "things". We don't have a wealth of natural resources (apart from some oil) and our wages are generally too high to be able to compete with manufacturers in the developing world. Brexit is going to kill off some of our European markets. Protectionism (taxing imports) will push up prices for British consumers.

However, we do have expertise in many fields, such as IT, AI, pharmaceuticals, research, renewable technology and much more. Financial services has been incredibly important, but that's up in the air at the moment. What is absolutely clear is that the UK needs a well-educated, flexible workforce and that's going to need investment.

As a footnote, the property market needs to be brought under control. Far too much capital is invested in property in the UK, which isn't surprising when people can make more money from investing in property than they can from investing in business.

Callistemon

One downside of working from home is that, in the long-term, this could cause physical problems. Most offices are equipped with proper work stations, ergonomically designed chairs designed to support the musculoskeletal system so that neck and back pain and other physical problems are minimised.

For many people, working from home means sitting on a dining chair at a table, hunched over a laptop. Many homes do not have separate offices or studies with the correct type of chair and desk set at the correct level and distance, or even the room to accommodate a proper chair or chairs especially if more than one person in the family works from home.

I do foresee that many people may be suffering from physical problems in future if working from home becomes the norm.

That's why work "hubs" will probably be a growth area - ideal for using empty high street spaces.

By the way, I wish I'd ever had an ergonomically designed chair at work :-(.

I've been lucky Callistemon, my boss brought my computer, keyboard, mouse mat and ratty old chair from the office to my home "so that you'll be more comfortable"! gee thanks!

The money saved on commuting, clothing, lunches, coffees, collections for birthdays, engagements at al could be spent on property properly designed workspace.

It doesn't have to be huge, just well designed.