Today's Commons debate

When DOB shamble rambles on watch out - his armour against answering any question he doesn't like is when he appears as a bumbling idiot. Clever!!

Urmstongran

BTW - who is Russ? .... link please?
(joke ?)

What about Ireland any idea?

BTW - who is Russ? .... link please?
(joke ?)

Of course we have left the EU - that s not the same as Brexit being done but I do appreciate such a subtle distinction will be beyond the understanding of many.

If (once) Boris goes, Brexit will be in the bag anyway so I’ll be a happy bunny!

Job done. And thank you to Boris for keeping his promise.

Urmstongran

One MP said today that last night's vote was "the last twitching of the Remain corpse".

Even a senior member of Sir Keir's team admitted that "Brexit is dead" and the party had effectively resigned itself to "not putting up a fight".

Any idea what is going to happen to Ireland?

Well Urm if you think that, you’ll think anything. But then you do already. The issue is about behaving honourably - hahahahaha

This is from Russ
I'm tentative about saying this, because it could be tripe.

But I've now heard it from 4 separate sources who work in journalism and follow me. They each say (independently, unprompted) it's an open secret Johnson is already planning his resignation in January.

One MP said today that last night's vote was "the last twitching of the Remain corpse".

Even a senior member of Sir Keir's team admitted that "Brexit is dead" and the party had effectively resigned itself to "not putting up a fight".

Forgive me Paddyanne, but I don't think the general public this side of the border.gives a tinkers cuss about Scottish independence in fact I think if we we're able to join in, the result would be in the bag for Scotland. It might be prudent to get a cast iron agreement with the EU before leaving the union!..falling between two stools could be financially uncomfortable! Small matter of currency not to mention the need for a hard border between our two nations which something tells me we would not be paying for!

The attack on Devolution is expected but still shocking ,how can they believe that putting a tory LORD in charge over decisions made by an elected government is OK? It certainly isn't OK by me or anyone I know...they may have just made Independence a certainty next year ..or even sooner

Peter Oborne made the mistake of voting Leave. As a right wing Telegraph writer this was not surprising.

However by the time he made this video three years later he had realised that he had been wrong. In particular he realised that the Irish question was actually insolvable.

To protect the Good Friday agreement we must avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland and to protect the unity of the UK there cannot be a border between GB and NI.

Many people realised this at the time of the fraudulent referendum and so voted Remain, but the Irish conundrum was glossed over by the pro-brexit media pushing for brexit.

Peter Oborne may well be one of many who realised too late that they had been misled, but not enough of them have been so frank about admitting it, which is to his credit.

Alegrias

Thanks Growstuff. You're right about Starmer, a pause was edited into his original interview to make it look like he didn't know how to answer a question. Its all a bit sinister isn't it?

It's a continuation of the Leave Campaign tactics, isn't it? IT is Cummings' speciality interest.

All those dark adverts worked a treat in 2016. But altering footage is safer as it can't be referred to, or challenged by, the Advertising Standards Agency.

Does the Left play as dirty?

Do any indignant right wingers have evidence of footage, or stills, doctored by the left?

Thanks Growstuff. You're right about Starmer, a pause was edited into his original interview to make it look like he didn't know how to answer a question. Its all a bit sinister isn't it?

Yes Alegrias that is the clip which is doing the rounds. You are absolutely correct. It's been cut to make Barnier appear to say the opposite of what's being claimed.

Given that Johnson based his argument yesterday on Barnier's wanting to threaten Northern Ireland, it's difficult to believe that the Conservatives weren't involved in making the latest clip go viral, as part of the propaganda campaign.

Didn't somebody do the same with a video of Starmer? The clip which went viral made it seem that he said something very different from what he actually said in the full video.

growstuff

If you've ever been caught for speeding, have you tried explaining that other people were going faster than you? I don't think the police would accept it as an excuse.

The UK has broken international law. It's childish and irrelevant to claim other people have too. It really does sound like the kind of thing a two year old would say.

I keep thinking Michelle Obama here. You know, "When they go low, we go high..."

And our very old and proud boast: 'An Englishman's word is his bond'

(We haven't quite broken international law yet, though, growstuff. We just appear to have every intention of doing so and enshrining it in domestic law. Still, now that we've shouted it from the rooftops everyone will know to steer clear, won't they?)

The Barnier clip - is it this: www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1335006/Brexit-News-Michel-Barnier-BBC-audio-Boris-Johnson-Ireland-latest-news

Actually I had found it before but I didn't think it was the clip everyone is talking about.

Its a 2 minute clip from a 2-hour documentary, made by the BBC, and Barnier is saying the exact opposite of what people are pretending he said. He is recommending leaving NI out of the negotiations for the time being, so that they can move ahead. And they then go on to discuss how this would go down with the other member states because they want to get everything settled. Maybe people should watch the whole program?

Interesting as well that a few moments before, they were talking about the fact that Raab went into negotiations and tried to change things that had already been agreed. And May reneged on agreements about the backstop. Sounds familiar.

People have been going on about Ireland since the day after the referendum in the same way Barnier was. It was always going to be an intractable problem. A choice had to be made and the choice the Westminster government has made is to open up all the old border problems.

Former Daily Telegraph journalist and staunch Brexiter, Peter Oborne, made this video in 2019:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLyRufzQCw8

Alegrias

Thanks GrannyGravy13. I've just spent half an hour trawling the internet for it but can't find it. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the clip, but right now I'm inclined to be siding with growstuff.

I saw it on a Twitter feed. It was very poor quality - probably filmed on a phone. I've had a look for it, but can't find it know. I listened a few times. Barnier was showing that he understood the situation in Ireland and he speculated about what the UK woud do, but he wasn't threatening.

If you've ever been caught for speeding, have you tried explaining that other people were going faster than you? I don't think the police would accept it as an excuse.

The UK has broken international law. It's childish and irrelevant to claim other people have too. It really does sound like the kind of thing a two year old would say.

Thanks GrannyGravy13. I've just spent half an hour trawling the internet for it but can't find it. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the clip, but right now I'm inclined to be siding with growstuff.

Jaberwok Your reference to the Berlin Blockade is ludicrous, as is your implication that the EU wanted to blockade Northern Ireland. Do you really have no recollection of the Irish Troubles and the Good Friday Agreement and what it meant for the Irish border?

People have been raising the issue of Northern Ireland, as Barnier was doing, since the referendum. It was always going to be a problem and the Withdrawal Agreement, agreed by the UK and EU, was a compromise.

People who voted to leave and people like Johnson have just shrugged their shoulders and given false reassurances. Brexiters don't care. Remainers couldn't do anything. It's nothing to do with Barnier.

Alegrias

GrannyGravy13

The sainted Barnier is on video saying that the price the U.K. will have to pay is N.I.

Do any of you think that is acceptable? I do not.

Link please?

I watched the link - sorry I didn't save it and can't find it now. Barnier was indeed discussing the situation with Northern Ireland, but he wasn't threatening. He was describing the situation as it was/is, which is something anybody with any sense could see for themselves. I guess the video clip is going to become part of the internet fake news library.

Typo *Steven (Commercial Chancery Barister)