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Breaking International Law

(92 Posts)
MaizieD Wed 16-Sep-20 10:50:53

This is a twitter thread by the Professor of Public Law & Chair of the Faculty of Law, University of Cambridge. Billed by David Allen Green QC as 'one of the country's greatest constitutional law scholars '

It demolishes each of the justifications so far put out by the government for breaking international law.

Just putting it here so people can access it easily

By my reckoning, the Government has so far attempted in five ways to justify clauses 42 and 43 of the Internal Market Bill, which, if enacted, would allow Ministers to make regulations in breach of the Withdrawal Agreement /…

1. The powers would breach international law but only in a ‘limited and specific’ manner (Brandon Lewis, Northern Ireland Secretary) — but this is not a distinction the law draws: a breach of international law is a breach of international law /…

2. The powers are needed in case the Government needs rapidly to implement safeguards under Art 16 NI Protocol (Lord Keen, Advocate General) — but the clause 42–3 powers bear little relation to the matters with which Article 16 is concerned /…

3. The powers are needed in case the Government rapidly needs to do what Article 62 of the Vienna Convention allows (Lord Keen) — but Article 62 requires a fundamental change of circumstance and permits only withdrawal/termination, not repudiation of individual obligations /…

4. The Withdrawal Agreement is a ‘special’ form of treaty because it presupposes a Future Relationship Agreement, so it’s ok to breach the WA if no FRA materialises (various Ministers) — this is just wrong /…

5. The Internal Market Bill would amount to an ‘acceptable’ rather than an ‘unacceptable’ breach of the rule of law (Robert Buckland, Lord Chancellor) — but the law draws no distinction between these two forms of breach /…

So: five attempts to justify clauses 42–3, none of which is satisfactory as a matter of law.

Sixth time lucky?

MaizieD Wed 16-Sep-20 10:51:23

twitter.com/ProfMarkElliott/status/1305958461826629632

Kamiso Wed 16-Sep-20 11:16:37

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-didn-t-the-eu-punish-germany-when-it-broke-international-law-

O.K. for Germany to break international law but not for the UK? More blatant hypocrisy!

vegansrock Wed 16-Sep-20 11:18:10

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Wheniwasyourage Wed 16-Sep-20 13:53:05

Apparently Lord Keen has offered his resignation but so far it has not been accepted.

Urmstongran Wed 16-Sep-20 14:04:51

Two wrongs might not make it right - but they do make it even. The EU can get off its high horse. Their protestations would make a fair maid blush.

Curlywhirly Wed 16-Sep-20 14:05:07

Ok for Germany to break international law but not for the UK? More blatant hypocrisy
By that reasoning then, it should be OK for any country to break international law? No - two wrongs don't make a right.

biba70 Wed 16-Sep-20 19:38:19

How can it make it even? Either Johnson knew his 'Deal' was bad and much worse than Mrs May's - and he misled not only the EU but us all. Or he didn't understand it, in which case ... I rest my case sad

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 10:30:45

Well at least we're not escorting a sinking dinghy to the middle of a busy shipping lane in high winds abandoning it and it's 16 (!!) occupants for Border Force to pick up if, or when they get there in time. Surely this is breaking international law?! But I guess this doesn't matter?! What a truly dreadful way to behave,totally beggars belief that any civilised country could behave with such barbarity! No wonder we are worried about the EU's potential treatment of NI. We obviously need to protect it against similar action! A salutary warning!

varian Thu 17-Sep-20 10:52:25

Lord Keen, the Lord Advocate has resigned because he cannot be party to breaking international law - and his resignation has been accepted.

At least for once a minister has gone and not just senior civil servants.

MaizieD Thu 17-Sep-20 10:59:45

Well, Jabberwok, aren't you glad that when they get here t we're going to put them up in five star hotels while we sort out the generous benefits and free housing for them?

That'll show those evil continentals how civilised countries behave.
🙄

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 11:44:07

MazieD I take it from your aggressive comment that you approve of migrants including two small children to be left to potentially drown mid channel! I must say I find that astonishing! I have never commented one way or the other about the migrant issue on here or anywhere else, so how on earth do you know what I think?!

paddyanne Thu 17-Sep-20 11:55:42

IF its true about the migrants then it is truly despicable BUT I'm inclined to think its ared top attempt to keep other things off the front page ...thay have form for that and theres a lot of shenanigans that they want to keep off the front page this week !

MaizieD Thu 17-Sep-20 12:12:50

TBH Jabberwok I'm finding your constant boiling rage about anything to do with Europe so ludicrous that the temptation to take the p*ss is becoming irresistible.

I'll try to ignore in future.

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 12:14:43

Paddyanne! There are plenty of photographs + I think one,maybe two videos of this incident. Border Force were alerted by a person on a trawler who did the photography! These poor souls were escorted to the border (so to speak) in a sinking dinghy, the women frantically trying to bale the water with cut down water bottles, the french boat appears to check then out and speeds off presumably back to France, leaving then to it! Luckily B F arrived in the nick of time! A truly appalling incident!

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 12:21:56

That makes two of us MaisieD! What a relief! It's a dreadful way for any country to behave including the UK, though thankfully we don't seem to, rather the opposite in fact! not just Europeans! As for boiling?!!! I leave that to you left wingers!!

Dinahmo Thu 17-Sep-20 13:15:40

Jaberwok

MazieD I take it from your aggressive comment that you approve of migrants including two small children to be left to potentially drown mid channel! I must say I find that astonishing! I have never commented one way or the other about the migrant issue on here or anywhere else, so how on earth do you know what I think?!

A touch of sarcasm in Maizie's post don't you think?

grumppa Thu 17-Sep-20 13:36:06

The people in the boat wanted to get to England; the French Navy helped them on their way. What’s wrong with that...?

Lexisgranny Thu 17-Sep-20 13:49:57

Two wrongs do not make a right, but surely a precedent is set if the initial one is allowed.

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 14:22:15

There were 16 people in a rubber dinghy meant for 5! It was waterlogged (full of water!).and perilously near sinking. Grumpa if you care to read the article and look the photos even you might just think that it might have been more sensible to escort them back france sooner than abandon them half way in the hopes that B.F would find them in time, bearing in mind that they could have drowned particularly very young children, but perhaps you feel its acceptable to risk people's lives in this way.

biba70 Thu 17-Sep-20 18:48:17

those who are up in arms about this case, couldn't care about those migrants, or any others ...

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sep-20 19:01:30

You can think what you please! but we care about any people left to drown whoever they are!

lemongrove Thu 17-Sep-20 19:38:14

It was a despicable act by the French.It was recorded in 90 minutes by journalists watching.The larger French Navy boat
Approached the overcrowded dinghy and then a smaller boat full of Gendarmerie went to the dinghy, came them some life jackets and a few bottles of water, and with the dinghy sandwiched between them escorted them into British waters.
Once there, the two French boats turned tail( usual French behaviour) and returned to France, leaving the dinghy to take it’s chances.Apparently it was long suspected that France was doing this, but this is the first time it has been observed doing so.Shame on the French.😡 There were women and children in the crowded dinghy and they could be seen frantically bailing out water.

lemongrove Thu 17-Sep-20 19:40:46

biba70

those who are up in arms about this case, couldn't care about those migrants, or any others ...

Rubbish as usual.

Jaberwok Fri 18-Sep-20 09:51:35

Lemon, Think if it had been BF that had behaved like that?!! The shrieks of rage on here would been legendary!! (Quite right too!). But as it was the French?!! hardly a whisper. Well at least they gave them lifebelts in case they had to spend time in the sea AND bottles of water! So that's ok!😏😏