Government by Decree

Used to be bewildered as to how the German people did not realise and fight against their downward surge into Nazism. Why did they not stop it happening?
NOW......Unhappily, I understand all too well as it is happening here NOW!!!!

You are right to be concerned about integrity and honesty spark when the PM you voted for is a proven liar.

Having made this point many times, I will do so again.

In 1975, I voted to go into a "Common Trading Market". Not for 600 members of the Lower House to give away my country to the EU. It wasn't theirs to give.

When I voted in 2016 to leave the EU that is exactly the vote. So here again, no deal! I want my gcn to grow up in a free country - the country whose freedom their family fought and died for over 800 years.

Immigration, from my point of view, all are welcome as long as they work and provided for themselves, and do not expect Britain to alter its traditional way of life to accommodate them.

Freedom for me is about sovereignty. I voted for Boris Johnson because I believed he was the one to deliver a no deal exit. Nobody promised a deal and I have never expected one.

Parliamentary sovereignty, is now a concerning issue. Unfortunately, it cannot be taken for granted and I am concerned about the integrity and honesty of politicians and the government.

Indeed- this is the rôle of Parliamentary Democracy.

suziewoozie

grow I agree re the whip. And yes, the 40 MPs are holding the Govt to ransom - so much for democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. I wonder what goodies they will get from Johnson? But he will lie to them as he does to everyone else - Labour are walking into the trap.

Hey! Hang on a minute. The tory MPs are rebelling because they intend to support an amendment which allows scrutiny of government plans before they are made law.

This is precisely how Parliament is meant to function, MPs scrutinising and amending proposed legislation. Where has all this nonsense about 'holding the government to ransom' come from? They're exercising parliamentary sovereignty FGS. The very thing that we've been bemoaning the potential loss of. At least, I thought that's what this thread was about.

I am actually quite baffled by this response of yours, Suziewoozie

grow I agree re the whip. And yes, the 40 MPs are holding the Govt to ransom - so much for democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. I wonder what goodies they will get from Johnson? But he will lie to them as he does to everyone else - Labour are walking into the trap.

As an aside I highly recommend “our social dilemma” on Netflix.

It goes a long way towards explaining division, manipulation, algorithms, populism, social media etc etc.

I found it alarming in the extreme, and not clear what can be done.

suziewoozie

If it comes to it (which I still doubt) would Johnson withdraw the whip from any Tories who support the amendment? I wonder what wheeler dealering is going on behind the scenes? One thing we can all we sure of is that it won’t be our interests that matter.

No, I don't think he would withdraw the whip from so many, especially given the latest poll showing Labour and Starmer ahead. I'm sure there are discussions going on behind the scenes and there will be a U-Turn of some sort.

That's quite worrying because it shows that about 40 right wing MPs can effectively blackmail the government. They don't give a stuff about parliamentary sovereignty - they just want to get their own way.

In the current case of Covid-19, it will be back to herd immunity and putting the economy and so-called "freedom of the individual" before public health. They don't care how many lives are lost along the way.

"They would have locked themselves out and thrown the key away." Turkeys voting for Christmas.

If it comes to it (which I still doubt) would Johnson withdraw the whip from any Tories who support the amendment? I wonder what wheeler dealering is going on behind the scenes? One thing we can all we sure of is that it won’t be our interests that matter.

Don’t know where the Rudd came from ?

suziewoozie

Yet more news of the despotism of the Johnson/Cummings Rudd - Paul Dacre to probably head up Ofcom.

Is there no end to this cronyism.

Or are they getting all their ducks in order?

Here's a list of the Tory rebels ... Looking at the list, there are some names on there whom I certainly wouldn't want to keep on my side for very long. I can't see that it's the start of a major rebellion against the government.

Graham Brady reckons there are now 46 Tory rebels. All the opposition parties look as though they might vote for his amendment. It's quite extraordinary that the opposition would vote for an amendment by a senior Tory, but if they do, it would be a major defeat for the government.

Yet more news of the despotism of the Johnson/Cummings Rudd - Paul Dacre to probably head up Ofcom.

You've hit the nail spot on the head, Elegran.

I am just utterly beyond hope of any improvement. We and the US are in exactly the same position with the same type of leaders and the interests of the rich and powerful determining and shaping our futures.

Surely there must be something that the patriotic democrats in the UK can do!

I wish I knew/

If parliament fail to resist no longer having the power to debate and vote against government by decree, then one of the new laws to be put in place would be to make that situation permanent - and parliament would be unable to prevent that happening. They would have locked themselves out and thrown the key away.

If the CoVid emergency should become so dangerous that it was considered essential that the government needed to act fast and without debate, then it might just be possible that they be granted powers to act so on a strictly temporary short-term basis, with regular compulsory reviews built into the terms. However, it all needs to be openly discussed and safeguards ensured.

Come back, Lady Hale.

It is just too easy to let things slip past without due diligence until suddenly there is no going back.

Oh yes of course. The longer the day goes on the dafter I get?

Thank you

JR = judicial review (soon to be abolished if Cummings has his way)

hr = hard right

Brains gone JR? hr?

Complaining not complying ?

The hard right only need 40 ish - and not even that many as there will be some Tories who support them based on really caring about ps and then some from other parties for a mixture of motivations. I do understand why some posters feel differently from me but where were all the hard right MPs who voted against prorogation? We needed a JR to get that stopped. Where are the hr MPs insisting on Johnson appearing regularly before the Liaison committee and not when he decides to honour them with his presence.?Where were the hr MPs complaining about him trying to fix the Chair of the Intelligence Committee and removing the whip when thwarted ? Where are the hr MPs complying about jobs and contracts going to friends of Cummings er al? With FPTP and the Whipping system, there’s no hope of ps in any meaningful sense. I’d believe they cared if they triggered a leadership contest.Maybe

I'm not bothered about the tories in parliament fighting like rats in a sack (which is basically what they are). What I am concerned about is them putting legislation through parliament which puts the government above the law and the tory MPs voting for it because they either don't understand that the government is subject to parliament, or they want to take upon the government powers of unchallenged, and unchallengeable, legislation to a degree that has not been enjoyed by any government since that of Charles 1. A civil war was fought then to put an end to those powers and Charles was executed.

It's absolutely no good saying that we can vote them out at the next election because we won't have another election if this bill passes unchanged. Once the government has those powers it won't let them go.