Trump throwing his toys out of the pram

I would like to clear up some things.
Before the riots Rudy Giuliani, ( hair dye dripping) the presidents lawyer, and Don Jr. riled up the crowds inciting violence with their speeches. The tent they were all in was before Trumps speech. They were partying and dancing. Trump had four tweets in Dec saying something great was going to happen on the 6th. He knew. There had been talk of him instituting martial law after he lost the election. He could put in the military in the states that he lost to overtake the government. Then he could institute his own electors to vote for him instead of who the people wanted. But the military did not want to be involved and should not be involved in politics.
Hours after the riots he gave a speech saying there should be peace and to go home and “ We love you .” Nothing like a mixed message.
Antifa means anti fascist. It is a movement. There is no proof that people that believed in that were there. The people who were there were the hate groups, Quanon believers ( who believe Trump was put on earth to save them) and Trump supporters believing his lies. I heard many supporters of him were mad because the speech he gave on Twitter before he was banned the first time said there was going to be an easy transition of power.

Curlywhirly

Well I for one think they should go ahead with impeachment. If they do nothing regarding Trump's disregard for the law, what message does that send, to both the public and Trump? A message that Trump is above the law? Well, wouldn't he just love that! He already has delusions of grandeur; it would confirm to him that he is indeed omnipotent and unconquerable. ?

Yes it would be a message that the president cannot be impeached.

If they can’t impeach for sedition and rabble rousing, they can’t impeach for anything.

Nixon would not have been impeached for a lesser charge.

I think that they must impeach regardless of outcome.

Well I for one think they should go ahead with impeachment. If they do nothing regarding Trump's disregard for the law, what message does that send, to both the public and Trump? A message that Trump is above the law? Well, wouldn't he just love that! He already has delusions of grandeur; it would confirm to him that he is indeed omnipotent and unconquerable. ?

Biden is correct, it's up the the senate whether Trump should be impeached. I'd be reluctant to go into another impeachment that Trump could somehow slither out of. I accept, he should not be able to slither out but he continues to get away with criminal behaviour.

I think it’s the best course of action, ( not to impeach him) as there isn’t long to go before the handover of power, and an impeachment may incite even more trouble.
Keeping things as low key as possible but with ramped up security measures seems the sensible thing to do.
The world awaits inauguration day with bated breath!

I think impeaching him would make him a martyr. Now he can't tweet that makes him slightly less visible. I never thought he would go to the inauguration, think he'll be on the golf course that day.

MaizieD

Trump has been permanently banned from twitter, and, I believe from facebook.

Stable doors and bolting horses come to mind...

It seems that a lot of trumps supporters have had their account suspended.

So people like Bannon, the chap whose hair dye ran, (?can’t remember his name) etc. Have also been banned. I wonder whether his family members are also banned.

The aim is to prevent further insurrection and terrorism.

Makes being banned from GN seem like chicken feed???

Trump has been permanently banned from twitter, and, I believe from facebook.

Stable doors and bolting horses come to mind...

varian

They were warned, by Adam Gopnik, writing in The New Yorker in May 2016

"If Trump came to power, there is a decent chance that the American experiment would be over. This is not a hyperbolic prediction; it is not a hysterical prediction; it is simply a candid reading of what history tells us happens in countries with leaders like Trump. Countries don’t really recover from being taken over by unstable authoritarian nationalists of any political bent, left or right—not by Peróns or Castros or Putins or Francos or Lenins or fill in the blanks. The nation may survive, but the wound to hope and order will never fully heal. Ask Argentinians or Chileans or Venezuelans or Russians or Italians—or Germans. The national psyche never gets over learning that its institutions are that fragile and their ability to resist a dictator that weak"

www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

A good article and so prophetic!

I think even the ordinary person understood that Trump was no ordinary president, I saw him as a joke, but what I certainly did not appreciate was the way that he has been able to manipulate so many people through lies and misinformation, although I should have done so as we had just gone through exactly the same situation in the U.K. which still continues.

What it shows is how entrenched these lies become and how difficult it is to help the voter to understand both how they have been duped and to accept the truth.

They were warned, by Adam Gopnik, writing in The New Yorker in May 2016

"If Trump came to power, there is a decent chance that the American experiment would be over. This is not a hyperbolic prediction; it is not a hysterical prediction; it is simply a candid reading of what history tells us happens in countries with leaders like Trump. Countries don’t really recover from being taken over by unstable authoritarian nationalists of any political bent, left or right—not by Peróns or Castros or Putins or Francos or Lenins or fill in the blanks. The nation may survive, but the wound to hope and order will never fully heal. Ask Argentinians or Chileans or Venezuelans or Russians or Italians—or Germans. The national psyche never gets over learning that its institutions are that fragile and their ability to resist a dictator that weak"

www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

I have just watched what Biden said.

He said that the question for impeachment is for the senate to decide.

I suspect he is following the rule of law.

He then went on to say that his, Bidens focus, has to be the virus and the economy.

As president, he will have no vote in the impeachment process.

I watched CNN yesterday and was alarmed that Biden doesn’t support impeachment, he wants so much to continue with the message of healing but needs to consider other implications of the situation, perhaps he thought what Trump said yesterday about focusing on healing was sincere but within a short time Trump was on the Presidential Twitter referring to ‘The Patriots’ again. Biden is making a big mistake if he thinks Trump has a moral code or any motive other than self interest. The 25th amendment is out of the question because Pence doesn’t support it and too many members of Trump’s. Cabinet have resigned. Impeachment is necessary, if successful Trump won’t be able to stand again for President or any other position and he will lose all the privileges And status of an ex President, which he doesn’t deserve. Hopefully if it is done swiftly he won’t be able to issue Presidential pardons to all these ‘Patriots’

CNN did a time line about what Trump was doing on Wednesday after he addressed his supporters which was shocking to say the least. He watched the invasion on tv, while he was doing that he tweeted complaining about Pence calling him a traitor while the mob were screaming Pence should die. Even while there was TV footage of senators cowering in fear for their lives he tweeted one Republican on his mobile, he actually wanted somebody else but was passed on to the person he wanted to speak to. It was a conversation about what Trump wanted to happen, no enquiry as to anybody’s safety, no message for his Vice President who has been loyal to Trump for four years or anybodynelse. After Trump’s phoney message of healing he was claiming he had immediately called in The National Guard which was another of his lies.

On CNN there is the clip of the Trump family and hangers on celebrating in some sort of VIP tent while Trump is addressing his thugs. Trump Junior is absolutely ecstatic about what is happening and so is his girlfriend. These are dangerous people who want to continue with the privileges they have enjoyed over the past four years. There is also something on CNN saying that there is going to be an investigation into White Supremacists having a presence in the Washington DC police.

I am genuinely concerned about what is going to happen between now and The Inauguration and beyond, hopefully the threats of Civil war are empty ones.

gmarie

Thanks BradfordLass73 & Whitewavemark2. It's been a very long few days and now 1:30 a.m. here in CA so I will get some sleep and perhaps it won't seem so bleak tomorrow.

?sleep well, tiredness can make things seem so much worse.

Thanks BradfordLass73 & Whitewavemark2. It's been a very long few days and now 1:30 a.m. here in CA so I will get some sleep and perhaps it won't seem so bleak tomorrow.

Iam64

I agree with the posters who find it worrying that the Capitol building was so inadequately protected. Even gransnet has had posts from people in the US indicating something big is planned for 6 January.
The democrats are calling or impeachment and I don't see there is any alternative given T's behaviour. They can't do nothing, yet any response is likely to fuel his idiot supporters. Very dangerous man as many of us have been saying since he stood 4 years ago.

I am watching CNN and was struck by a social scientist that they interviewed.

He said that people are making decisions based on lies, and it is striking how Trump has been encouraging this behaviour for over a year now, even before the election.

The social scientist said that there is absolutely no alternative to impeachment, and I agree.

If he is made a martyr then so be it, but a president who took an oath to uphold the constitution and has completely trashed it cannot be allowed to get away with it. To do so would imperil the constitution and democracy in the USA

I agree with the posters who find it worrying that the Capitol building was so inadequately protected. Even gransnet has had posts from people in the US indicating something big is planned for 6 January.
The democrats are calling or impeachment and I don't see there is any alternative given T's behaviour. They can't do nothing, yet any response is likely to fuel his idiot supporters. Very dangerous man as many of us have been saying since he stood 4 years ago.

You are a continual disruptor that always reduces the thread both in quality and pleasantness

How very uncouth you become, Whitewave, when someone disagrees with your point of view

gmarie

My cousin lives in DC quite near the Capitol buildings and she called me earlier to say that tonight she watched buses pull up and discharge more protestors. News outlets are reporting on continuing efforts in far-right social media corners to organize further insurrection. I feel so depressed and exhausted as this scary stupidity continues to go on. Here in the US the Covid numbers and deaths continue to rise alarmingly with hospitals in most of California overwhelmed. My closest friend says that at her hospital they have had to convert waiting rooms and and staff rooms into intensive care spaces and other hospitals nearby now need refrigerated trucks to handle the deceased. I can't believe we've come to this.

I am so sorry to read everything that is happening. All Americans can do is to keep the faith and be sure that hate will never prevail.

I’m sure that those responsible will be brought to justice before more lives are lost and damage done

gmarie It must be terribly hard for you but we must hope that exposing all the faults which led to this catastrophe teaches good and effective lessons.

My cousin lives in DC quite near the Capitol buildings and she called me earlier to say that tonight she watched buses pull up and discharge more protestors. News outlets are reporting on continuing efforts in far-right social media corners to organize further insurrection. I feel so depressed and exhausted as this scary stupidity continues to go on. Here in the US the Covid numbers and deaths continue to rise alarmingly with hospitals in most of California overwhelmed. My closest friend says that at her hospital they have had to convert waiting rooms and and staff rooms into intensive care spaces and other hospitals nearby now need refrigerated trucks to handle the deceased. I can't believe we've come to this.

jane43 I think that you are correct to be alarmed and it was clear right from the beginning of the mob at the WH that there was insufficient policing, by the time they had reached Capitol Hill the lack of police protection was seen by the entire world and indeed remarked upon.

Indeed we saw police taking selfies with the insurrecters, the police helping women down the steps, the police opening barriers to allow the mob through, and numerous other anomalies that left me with my jaw on the floor.

Had the military cooperated with Trump as it is reported he asked them to do, there would have been a full scale coup, and the USA could well be at war with itself.

I think that the USA remains in a very precarious position and I hope that the Biden administration cleans out the traitors and restores balance snd order pdq with those responsible and in particular Trump behind bars where they belong.

* Lemongrove*
The authorities will be ready to deal with any insurrection/ demos or whatever comes their way, they dare not be complacent next time.

I really wish I could be this optimistic that it was just complacency. There is a strong chance that individuals within various departments of ‘the authorities’ were complicit or at the least sympathetic to the cause and may still be. Numerous people in The Pentagon were replaced very recently and the people who replaced them were hand picked by Trump. The services of The National Guard in Maryland were offered at a very early stage on Wednesday but authority from The Pentagon was initially refused and it was a long time before permission was eventually given, Why was the security manpower in The Capitol so sparse and inadequately equipped? There is footage of one security officer trying to hold off a crowd of people ascending the stairs with a baton, outside The Capitol a few police officers were smiling and posing for selfies. It was common knowledge that Trump was inviting his supporters for a rally in Washington DC on January 6th, everybody should have been on standby.

Vice President Mike Pence tweeted that he and the second lady were “deeply saddened to learn of the passing of US Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick and send our deepest sympathies and prayers to his family, friends and fellow officers.

Pence goes on to write Sicknick was “American hero who gave his life defending our Capitol.

Source, CNN.

This is what you expect of a 'normal' person.
Meanwhile, as far as I know, Trump remains silent on that topic!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

To return to the subject.....no matter what may be planned on social media in the US either on or around inauguration day,
The authorities will be ready to deal with any insurrection/ demos or whatever comes their way, they dare not be complacent next time.