Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

Don’t we have one of the lowest state pensions in the Western world? And is it fair that people who have worked and paid for a small additional income to supplement that should have it snatched off them by way of reductions to their state pension? Not in my book.

Yes, there are pensioners who are very well off, as there are people in every sector and age group - presumably they pay tax on their income accordingly?

Bringing in means testing (the very expression makes me think of Victorian values), and limiting free prescriptions etc to those on Pension Credit, will lead to those already too proud or too unaware to claim it suffering even more. It’s estimated that that’s up to 40% of those eligible.

This has been debated before I think. My view is that it is all too easy to forget the pensioners in the middle. Insufficient income to feel comfortably off but too much to qualify for means tested benefits. There is a real danger that these people would then either qualify for means tested benefits and negate any saving or have to make choices that will seriously impact on quality of life. It has already been necessary for many of that middle group of pensioners to adjust already tight budgets to re-absorb the cost of a television licence, some will say the amount is insignificant, it is certainly not the reality for many. It would in my view be fairer to add the amount of these ‘benefits’ to retirement pension and so make it taxable. Those with a higher overall income would then see less benefit. Removal of free prescriptions could cause extreme hardship to many and I hope this is never under serious consideration.

Smileless2012

IMO any benefits given to pensioners should be means tested. Let those who need it receive it.

His reasoning is they'll probably be dead before the next election and if their not they wont remember who made the cuts Did he actually say this Paddyanne?

I agree, it could be linked to income, a lot of pension age people don’t need the extra benefits.
I think paddyanne is putting words in Liam Fox’s mouth.

yes cornergran this has been debated before and with practically the same comments. I'm on Pension Credit and thus have very little money, so for me even (and probably thousands of others outside of GN) the seemingly 'paltry' £10 Christmas bonus is a great help at a very expensive time of year.

Most of us on here have worked throughout our adult life and paid our taxes. Those taxes have paid for the education and health care of the generations after us and for the pensions and healthcare of those before us. I don't have children but am quite happy that some of my taxes have contributed towards the upkeep of other peoples. My father died when he was 55 and my mother when she was 63. My father didn't draw a pension and my mother had a pension for 3 years. They contributed into the system and received the benefit of education and health care for their children. But they received little pension income. It's swings and roundabouts.

Before any of you lay into me I'm obviously aware that my taxes are also paying for roads, etc etc etc.

We need a fairer system. The problem with means testing is that people don't want to be seen to be poor. Historically thousands of pensioners haven't claimed the benefits to which they are entitled. Furthermore, the cost of means testing apparently outweighed the benefit of operating such a system.

However, with the computer systems available to HMRC it should be easy enough to identify those people who could have some benefits cut - eg removing heating allowance from higher rate tax payers or assuming that everyone over a certain age and living in specified post codes is taxed on the benefit of free travel.

Why do pensioners living in London receive free travel passes whilst people living in rural areas don't have access to public transport?

HMRC have access to a wide range of information about peoples' finances. Did you know that income paid to AirBNB renters is now being declared? Not all of it will be taxable but that's another matter.

The DSS know each and every one of us that receives a state pension. It should not be difficult to link to HMRC to find those who don't have other income. I, through my agent's account with HMRC can obtain details of my client's pensions and/or salaries. I'm unable to get their state pension if they don't have other income taxed under PAYE but the day will come when I can.

My only caveat is the appalling way in which recent computer programmes have been devised and the vast amounts paid to those friends of people in high places who are running the track and trace and other such systems.

bohemian, apologies from me if you post seemed smug. I have been very hard up for many periods in my life. Our pensions and small inheritance means for the first time in our lives we can manage without constant worry.
We do have a very low state pension in this country, leaving many eligible for pension tax credits. Its shameful. Pensions should Give people enough to live on.

With you on this GrandmaMoira

Trouble is, any system tweaking, will inevitable discriminate against someone in need, it always does. The state pension should reflect the true cost of living and take into account the additional cost required by an aging population. If pensioners become the butt of claw-back, the government is almost certainly likely to find its support further diminished.

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

Many pensioners who have retired abroad are still contributing to the UK. If they are in receipt of government pensions (not the state pension) that income will be taxed in the UK. They will get a credit for the tax deducted in their country of residence under the Double Taxation Treaties.

I have a business in the UK, operated through a limited company and so am paying corporation tax on the profits, so I am still contributing to the UK economy despite living in France. I pay tax in France on my earnings from that company. I am sure I am not unique.

kittylester I forgot to add that those on limited incomes who live in the UK aren't contributing very much to the UK economy.

And, they won't, will they, unless those of us who can do so support them by not taking benefits that we can do without!

The triple lock was introduced to try to raise the state pension to a level that meant that those whose only income was the state pension would be able to live at a reasonable level without further state benefits. It was hoped that by introducing the triple lock this raising of living standards would happen over time. It prevented governments from treating state pension like a political football, and gave a level of security never before seen.

We are still not at that level, and when compared to Europe the U.K. pension is pretty paltry, and the average pensioner income, even taking any private pension into account is relatively low compared to Germany, France or Spain.

I am very concerned to keep the state pension out of governments hands of any colour and would hope if the triple lock must go something replaces it.

Dinahmo

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

Many pensioners who have retired abroad are still contributing to the UK. If they are in receipt of government pensions (not the state pension) that income will be taxed in the UK. They will get a credit for the tax deducted in their country of residence under the Double Taxation Treaties.

I have a business in the UK, operated through a limited company and so am paying corporation tax on the profits, so I am still contributing to the UK economy despite living in France. I pay tax in France on my earnings from that company. I am sure I am not unique.

The business/company is not you it is an entity with its own legal status, so you are not paying tax the company is. As a director you take drawings from the company and rightly pay tax on that income, as you reside in France the tax on that income is taxed by the French revenue authorities.

Dinahmo - With you

My MIL, in the good old days of rate rebate, refused to claim it as she saw it as charity. The thing is if you had seen the destitution in which she lived in 1964, when I first came on the scene, most caring people would have been horrified. When left a widow in 1942, aged 53, she was told she had to pay ten years national insurance to be eligible for a pension.

She had no money, and no employment skills having raised a family as a stay at home mother. Bless her, she went out scrubbing floors for ten years (her description not mine). She believed herself privileged to have survived without having to ask for CHARITY.

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

I live near Versailles which gets colder than some parts of England in winter but I do not have the fuel allowance but I do pay UK taxes, even though it is a small sum.

What is the triple lock?

The reason we have these bonuses and allowances is because whichever Government started them did it instead of increasing the State pension to a level equalling that of other European countries.

They are not subject to increases and can be taken away again. A clever move politically but deceitful.

In the 15 years we lived in Spain we paid UK taxes on our government and state pension and Spanish taxes on our private pension. We paid more tax to the UK than we did to Spain. We did not use the NHS in the UK during that time.

One of the benefits of being in the EU was freedom of movement. I have always thought there has been a slight element of spite against people that took advantage of that.

The only reference I can see online to the OP’s statement from Alex Wild is dated 2015?

Now is the best time to cut pensioner benefits because many of those affected “won’t be around to vote” at the next election and others will forget they had them in the first place, a think tank director has said.

Alex Wild, a research director at the Taxpayers’ Alliance, a think tank that campaigns for lower taxes, said the Government must not wait to make cuts to benefits such as the winter fuel allowance, free bus pass, free TV licence and the Christmas bonus for the over 65s.

The former Tory Defence Secretary Liam Fox, speaking at the same fringe event at the Conservative party conference, agreed, saying the Government must take advantage of the “great opportunity” of a weak opposition to push through unpopular decisions, “however unpalatable they will be”.

He added that older people would understand the need to cut the deficit and help the future generation.

Independent 5th October 2015

Conservative MP Liam Fox has been knocked out of the contest to become the next director-general of the World Trade Organization.

The ex-cabinet minister was among three candidates who failed to make the final two, as the field narrowed further.

BBC News 9 hours ago.

He's not a Minister and doesn't have a lot of say any more.

ALL benefits should be means-tested !

If they did away with the £10 from every pensioner it wouldn't be missed for a start, along with the 25p for those of us who are turned 80.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR3D7A70NvH0rDiX-tHOj2ERXeRnW-G_4ebNVJoR1yZ10we1cJAYkzTC6jg

Because this came up on my news feed today, I did not notice it was from 2015- I suppose because Liam Fox or Alex Wild has been in the news again. It is still a chilling insight into how Tories think about pensioners.

WWM2 Of course I know that a company is a separate entity - it so happens that I'm the only shareholder and therefore it is my money. For reasons that are no concern of anybody else, I chose not to take all the profits as salary and nor do I pay myself a dividend out of taxed profits. Please don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

I wasn’t but you posted as though you were paying tax in both the U.K. and France, and I simply pointed out that you are quite separate from your company in tax law.

That was all.

Of course the company has the massive advantage of only paying tax at 19% on the bottom line, which is less and perhaps far less than the equivalent individual in the U.K.