Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

Excellent post Doodledog - well said.

Framilode

In the 15 years we lived in Spain we paid UK taxes on our government and state pension and Spanish taxes on our private pension. We paid more tax to the UK than we did to Spain. We did not use the NHS in the UK during that time.

One of the benefits of being in the EU was freedom of movement. I have always thought there has been a slight element of spite against people that took advantage of that.

Apologies for using the quote button but my iPad won't behave when I try to copy small parts of a post to paste it.

The point of paying taxes is to help other people as well as oneself, so one's not using the NHS while in Spain is irrelevant. We all pay taxes to support health, education and other things from which society as a whole benefits.

kittylester

I have said, on here, for years that free prescriptions, tv licences, bus passes and WFP are ridiculous across the board and should only be available to people on pension credit or other types of benefit..

People with sufficient money should buy a prescription subscription, pay a nominal sum for their bus passes etc.

I think most people agree, kitty. Trouble is, it's more expensive to sort out who actually needs the benefits than just to pay it to everyone. It was/is* the same with Child Benefit.

*out of touch with all that now

Pensions in the U.K. are measly compared with everywhere else in Europe and the government are always boasting about being world beating everything do we really want the worst pensions? Agree fairer tax system is the answer so those who have most pay more - that would include pensioners who pay the higher rate of tax as well.

I hate means testing, as I have said on many threads. I think it keeps the poor ‘in their place’ as any attempt to save for the future is penalised. I believe in a fair tax system so that anyone who pays in can be guaranteed a decent pension without the fear of having it taken off them when they reach pension age.

I think that the way in which people feel free to decide what others ‘need’ or ‘can afford’ is reminiscent of the ‘deserving poor’ attitude of old, and has no place in a modern society. If someone has contributed all their lives they should not be expected to live on ‘what they need’, but should be able to spend their money as they choose.

I feel that a pension should be a reward for years of working, and should not be viewed as a benefit, unless it is being paid to those who have not made enough contributions, in which case other factors should be taken into account (eg disability, illness or caring for a partner).

Finally, I believe that there should be a proper legal contract, so that everyone who contributes knows what they will get on retirement, so that they can plan accordingly, with no changes allowed over the age of 45 or so (or maybe after 25 years of contributions). Again, that would allow people to plan for the future with a degree of certainty. People could then decide if they could afford not to work at all, to work and retire early, or take a contribution holiday to stay at home with children - maybe splitting pension rights between spouses during those years - and basically have the freedom to choose how to prepare for older age.

Of course the company has the massive advantage of only paying tax at 19% on the bottom line, which is less and perhaps far less than the equivalent individual in the U.K.

I wasn’t but you posted as though you were paying tax in both the U.K. and France, and I simply pointed out that you are quite separate from your company in tax law.

That was all.

WWM2 Of course I know that a company is a separate entity - it so happens that I'm the only shareholder and therefore it is my money. For reasons that are no concern of anybody else, I chose not to take all the profits as salary and nor do I pay myself a dividend out of taxed profits. Please don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR3D7A70NvH0rDiX-tHOj2ERXeRnW-G_4ebNVJoR1yZ10we1cJAYkzTC6jg

Because this came up on my news feed today, I did not notice it was from 2015- I suppose because Liam Fox or Alex Wild has been in the news again. It is still a chilling insight into how Tories think about pensioners.

If they did away with the £10 from every pensioner it wouldn't be missed for a start, along with the 25p for those of us who are turned 80.

ALL benefits should be means-tested !

Now is the best time to cut pensioner benefits because many of those affected “won’t be around to vote” at the next election and others will forget they had them in the first place, a think tank director has said.

Alex Wild, a research director at the Taxpayers’ Alliance, a think tank that campaigns for lower taxes, said the Government must not wait to make cuts to benefits such as the winter fuel allowance, free bus pass, free TV licence and the Christmas bonus for the over 65s.

The former Tory Defence Secretary Liam Fox, speaking at the same fringe event at the Conservative party conference, agreed, saying the Government must take advantage of the “great opportunity” of a weak opposition to push through unpopular decisions, “however unpalatable they will be”.

He added that older people would understand the need to cut the deficit and help the future generation.

Independent 5th October 2015

Conservative MP Liam Fox has been knocked out of the contest to become the next director-general of the World Trade Organization.

The ex-cabinet minister was among three candidates who failed to make the final two, as the field narrowed further.

BBC News 9 hours ago.

He's not a Minister and doesn't have a lot of say any more.

The only reference I can see online to the OP’s statement from Alex Wild is dated 2015?

In the 15 years we lived in Spain we paid UK taxes on our government and state pension and Spanish taxes on our private pension. We paid more tax to the UK than we did to Spain. We did not use the NHS in the UK during that time.

One of the benefits of being in the EU was freedom of movement. I have always thought there has been a slight element of spite against people that took advantage of that.

The reason we have these bonuses and allowances is because whichever Government started them did it instead of increasing the State pension to a level equalling that of other European countries.

They are not subject to increases and can be taken away again. A clever move politically but deceitful.

What is the triple lock?

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

I live near Versailles which gets colder than some parts of England in winter but I do not have the fuel allowance but I do pay UK taxes, even though it is a small sum.

Dinahmo - With you

My MIL, in the good old days of rate rebate, refused to claim it as she saw it as charity. The thing is if you had seen the destitution in which she lived in 1964, when I first came on the scene, most caring people would have been horrified. When left a widow in 1942, aged 53, she was told she had to pay ten years national insurance to be eligible for a pension.

She had no money, and no employment skills having raised a family as a stay at home mother. Bless her, she went out scrubbing floors for ten years (her description not mine). She believed herself privileged to have survived without having to ask for CHARITY.

Dinahmo

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

Many pensioners who have retired abroad are still contributing to the UK. If they are in receipt of government pensions (not the state pension) that income will be taxed in the UK. They will get a credit for the tax deducted in their country of residence under the Double Taxation Treaties.

I have a business in the UK, operated through a limited company and so am paying corporation tax on the profits, so I am still contributing to the UK economy despite living in France. I pay tax in France on my earnings from that company. I am sure I am not unique.

The business/company is not you it is an entity with its own legal status, so you are not paying tax the company is. As a director you take drawings from the company and rightly pay tax on that income, as you reside in France the tax on that income is taxed by the French revenue authorities.

The triple lock was introduced to try to raise the state pension to a level that meant that those whose only income was the state pension would be able to live at a reasonable level without further state benefits. It was hoped that by introducing the triple lock this raising of living standards would happen over time. It prevented governments from treating state pension like a political football, and gave a level of security never before seen.

We are still not at that level, and when compared to Europe the U.K. pension is pretty paltry, and the average pensioner income, even taking any private pension into account is relatively low compared to Germany, France or Spain.

I am very concerned to keep the state pension out of governments hands of any colour and would hope if the triple lock must go something replaces it.

And, they won't, will they, unless those of us who can do so support them by not taking benefits that we can do without!

kittylester I forgot to add that those on limited incomes who live in the UK aren't contributing very much to the UK economy.

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

Many pensioners who have retired abroad are still contributing to the UK. If they are in receipt of government pensions (not the state pension) that income will be taxed in the UK. They will get a credit for the tax deducted in their country of residence under the Double Taxation Treaties.

I have a business in the UK, operated through a limited company and so am paying corporation tax on the profits, so I am still contributing to the UK economy despite living in France. I pay tax in France on my earnings from that company. I am sure I am not unique.

With you on this GrandmaMoira

Trouble is, any system tweaking, will inevitable discriminate against someone in need, it always does. The state pension should reflect the true cost of living and take into account the additional cost required by an aging population. If pensioners become the butt of claw-back, the government is almost certainly likely to find its support further diminished.

bohemian, apologies from me if you post seemed smug. I have been very hard up for many periods in my life. Our pensions and small inheritance means for the first time in our lives we can manage without constant worry.
We do have a very low state pension in this country, leaving many eligible for pension tax credits. Its shameful. Pensions should Give people enough to live on.