Starmer calling for lockdown (Edited by GNHQ)

They don't need to remember the last pandemic EllenVannin.

They had the recommendations from Operation Cygnus in 2016, which they chose to ignore, and the 'Pandemic Planning' documents from 2013.

Most of us in business still have copies of those documents and guidance - none of which seems to have been followed.

There's a fair bit of talk on here about coalition governments.

Perhaps we forget sometimes that during WW2 - that approach was our survival success, and the work of managing that success was shared equally between Attlee and Churchill.

I'm not sure that today's Tory Party has the bottle to make that a success, since it's more recent lurch to the far right of its own ideology.

I'm a bit confused about claims that the 1957-1958 influenza pandemic (Asian Flu) was deadlier than Covid-19. It 's not what the statistics suggest.

The case mortality rate in the UK was 0.3%. The case mortality rate for Covid-19 isn't known yet, but it's estimated to be between 0.5 and 1%. That figure will possibly go down as more younger people are infected and recover, but it's not going to be lower. An estimated 3% of cases of Asian Flu had complications, which is probably about the same as Covid-19.

33,000 people in the UK died from Asian Flu. That figure has already been exceeded for Covid-19 and will certainly increase.

A vaccine was found for Asian Flu, which helped prevent cases. It also causes bacterial infections, which were controlled with antibiotics.

railman

There's a fair bit of talk on here about coalition governments.

Perhaps we forget sometimes that during WW2 - that approach was our survival success, and the work of managing that success was shared equally between Attlee and Churchill.

I'm not sure that today's Tory Party has the bottle to make that a success, since it's more recent lurch to the far right of its own ideology.

I agree with you railman. I think Starmer would be signing his own political death warrant if he went into a coalition with this Johnson/Cummings led government, which isn't the slightest bit interested in co-operation or compromise.

Maybe Nick Clegg could have a word with Starmer about coalitions with the Tories!

EllanVannin - Trouble is, most politicians et al don't remember our last pandemic !

Most unlikely to have been born in 1957/8. The generation experiencing it then made of sterner stuff having survived WW2.

Dinahmo I believe there was discussion on a traffic light system similar to that in France, however and this is concerning, the number of colours is limiting and not as easily understood. 1, 2, 3 can continue onwards..4, 5 etc.

I still think the PM’s strategy is the way to go.

The numbers vary so much around the country that a national lockdown would not make sense at all.

Starmer of course just wants to come up with a different idea just for the sake of being different.

I did however like the suggestion from one poster on here that maybe his suggestion should be taken up, on the condition that he (Starmer ) copes with all the resultant flack when it doesn’t work !

We need to keep as much of the country running as normally as possible whilst attempting to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed, and that is exactly what the PM is trying to do.

How about us all getting behind him and supporting him rather than constantly whinging, when he is clearly doing his dammdest to help the country through this?

sparklingsilver28

^EllanVannin - Trouble is, most politicians et al don't remember our last pandemic !^

Most unlikely to have been born in 1957/8. The generation experiencing it then made of sterner stuff having survived WW2.

Plenty of people alive in 1957/8 hadn't survived WW2. (I was one.) How did the war increase resilience to a pandemic anyway?

JenniferEccles

I still think the PM’s strategy is the way to go.

The numbers vary so much around the country that a national lockdown would not make sense at all.

Starmer of course just wants to come up with a different idea just for the sake of being different.

I did however like the suggestion from one poster on here that maybe his suggestion should be taken up, on the condition that he (Starmer ) copes with all the resultant flack when it doesn’t work !

We need to keep as much of the country running as normally as possible whilst attempting to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed, and that is exactly what the PM is trying to do.

How about us all getting behind him and supporting him rather than constantly whinging, when he is clearly doing his dammdest to help the country through this?

Are you Starmer's confidante? How do you know what he wants? Do the SAGE members just want to be different too? Or do you think there's a chance they might have a point?

Why do you thing the Conservative dominated Essex County Council wants to be placed in Tier 2? The level of infection in Essex is rising, but it's not particularly high.

What does the Daily Mail have to say about it?

We need to keep as much of the country running as normally as possible whilst attempting to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed, and that is exactly what the PM is trying to do.

You mean like having parties and meeting friends when you're young? Not wearing a mask in public places? Just being "normal"?

Funnily enough, plenty of GNers are whinging about the behaviour of people other than themselves.

growstuff ironically one of the highest (Thurrock) areas in Essex will be exempt from going into tier 2 along with Southend.

In the Asian flu pandemic of 57 only 3 of us in school didn't catch it. The schools were not closed down. I don't think anything else was either. I must be lucky as i have never had flu

Do lockdowns really work? France and Spain had a draconian lockdown and all it did was delay it. I will be surprised if the same doesn't happen here. We need to learn to live with it because it is not going away. Catching Covid is not the same as dying from it. We are in danger of more people dying from cancer and other illnesses because of lack of treatment.

Sir Keir was merely suggesting that the Government apply the advice given BY SAGE rather than ignore it in favour of Tory donors like the odious Wetherspoons owner

I had Asian flu in 1957, aged 18 and knew many people who did - I never heard of anyone who died, though. I do wonder if that generation had more immunity - very few overweight children or adults, most had already been challenged by childhood illness without the benefit of vaccinations, we slept in cold bedrooms, had regular cod liver oil (vitamin D), and a lot more exercise.

Can’t you comment on anything you disagree with growstuff without your usual sneery reference to the Daily Mail?

I have no idea what it says as I haven’t read it yet today.

The opinion I gave was all mine.

Growstuff - How did the war increase resilience to a pandemic anyway?

How anyone born in Britain and growing up in the immediate aftermath of WW2, to remain ignorant of what those years imposed on the nation and what it took in character to overcome astonishing.

Its response to "Asian Flu" another indication of this generations strength of character and resilience - by simply getting on with what had to be dealt with and at whatever the cost.

Hope it has enlightened you!

Much has been said on here of the the Asian flu epidemic in the 1950s. In, I believe, 1968, we had Hong Kong flu.

No lockdown then either, so the economy survived and it is said over 60,000 people in this country died of it.

If Keir Starmer wants to take a different approach, how about a campaign to urge the high number of very overweight people we have now to do something about it?

How many of those clogging up the NHS with various ailments are obese ?

It’s a well known risk factor which could easily be tackled

"If Keir Starmer wants to take a different approach, how about a campaign to urge the high number of very overweight people we have now to do something about it?"

Well said, Jennifer. Now stand by for the flack!

Well Johnson has done that so what would be the point.

JenniferEccles

Much has been said on here of the the Asian flu epidemic in the 1950s. In, I believe, 1968, we had Hong Kong flu.

No lockdown then either, so the economy survived and it is said over 60,000 people in this country died of it.

If Keir Starmer wants to take a different approach, how about a campaign to urge the high number of very overweight people we have now to do something about it?

How many of those clogging up the NHS with various ailments are obese ?

It’s a well known risk factor which could easily be tackled

Actually amongst the million of other things the PM promised and hasn’t materialised was to get to grip with the overweight issue.

Easy to forget I know when he promises so much and delivers so little.

A circuit breaker would cut the death rate by half. I would have thought it was worth doing for that alone.

I will Bodach ?

The trouble is too many people seem to be in complete denial about their weight. Either that or they claim they can’t lose it.

The Starmer and weight campaign comment was a bit tongue in cheek as I am not sure any government or political leader can make much difference.

The bottom line is we are all responsible for what we shovel into our mouths every day, so the responsibility lies with every one of us.

GC in yr 1 came out of school this afternoon informing us that he had been making Christmas cards most of the day.

Is this a sign that schools are expecting to be closing down ?

In my GDs year 11 group there are hardly any attending as some have Covid and those near them have been sent home.

My GS in another part of the country had Covid and when he returned to school only half the class were there. I wonder how many are missing out on their education even though they have been sent back to school.

Posted too soon. Perhaps extending the half term and having a circuit break may help but I am not totally convinced it would work.