Starmer calling for lockdown (Edited by GNHQ)

Without an effective test, track, trace and isolate system no amount of 'following the rules' is going to make much difference. Countries which have done best during this pandemic are the ones that have instituted a really efficient system.

A circuit breaker lockdown would have to be accompanied by a revamping of our system to include local authority public health structures, which are proving far more effective than the privatised one.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I do not like the idea of more time spent lost, lonely & alone through another Lockdown. If that is what it takes to keep my Family & others I care about safe from covid then I will take another Lockdown please.

Definitely think we need a short sharp lockdown. Think Boris agrees but others in conservative party are causing him trouble. It will be hard but kids will be off school too if they pick half term which many schools here in South West are suggesting

Sadly folk just do as they want because they are shown an appalling example - Dominic Cumming, Stanley Johnston, and Margaret What'shername to mention a few. This causes resentment. Let's face it, I am fed up behaving and would love to 'break out'. but I know it could cause a lot of damage to others as well as myself!!

Totally agree with Starmer on this! I live in an area that has a low infection rate but we are now being overwhelmed with people from high infection areas visiting our town. We are being threatend with Tier 3 restrictions but what is the point when people will be driving up the M6 from the less restricted south to visit the Lake District and Scotland. I feel that the North has been victimised and do not believe the data we are shown everyday and a short, sharp lockdown would be the most effective and fairest way to try and stop the spread of COVID19.

Isn't it time we had a coalition government, devoid of party political overtones, with the purpose of fighting the spread of the virus and minimising the damage to the economy. This in-fighting between parties is very damaging.
It doesn't seem the virus will ever go away, but once it's under control we can have a general election and the squabbling between party policies can resume?

Quilty - In absolute agreement with you.
A government of National unity without all the political infighting and petty ‘point scoring comments’ is needed at this time to deal with the critical situation we are facing. A percentage of the population are undisciplined and lacking in sense of responsibility both personal and collective. And furthermore, they have little or no understanding of the effects that their reckless, selfish and defiant attitudes towards the rules/guidelines etc put in force in the fight to protect everyone from this vicious virus. Millions of us continue to follow the rules as best we can and we owe it to ourselves, our families and to our fellow creatures to do so. Perhaps the Government representatives need to reassess the way they have ‘presented’ to the population and the words ‘dithering and arrogance’ do come to mind.

EllanVannin

Avoid crowds is all I can say. How can you catch something if you steer clear ? Don't go mooching around shops---enclosed areas. What could be simpler ? Resist and stay put.

I wonder if those plebs in Liverpool would have done what they did if this virus killed the young as Asian flu did ?
Why won't folk do as they're told ?

A few weeks ago, having read an interview with a young man who had covid back in March and was still suffering the long term effects, I started a post on here asking people to warn their children and grandchildren about this.

Several GNers suggested that I was blaming young people for what was then happening. I wasn't. But I do think that more emphasis should have been placed on the after effects and some might have taken notice of the older generation.

As there is already in-fighting between Government ministers themselves over how this pandemic should be dealt with, I really don't think there's a cat in hell's chance that a cross-party approach is going to be any better.

The Tories have a majority - the opposition alone can not prevent any measures that the current government proposes, could they?
As I see it, any 'political point-scoring' from opposition parties should be of little importance at this time (no general election looming), and certainly not to blame for the Government's failures or successes in its approach to Covid.

I used to like Starmer, I don’t after this. I’m totally opposed to lockdown, not only because of the huge cost to society but also because lockdowns don’t work.

Genuinely don’t think it’s a question of political point scoring for Starmer or others to disagree with plans. Just as on GN if you disagree with the measures taken it does not mean you are of one or other political persuasion as. An be seen when posters say they voted for Boris but don’t think he’s doing a good job, that doesn’t mean they’ve automatically became labour supporters.

Agree with you totally SilentGames.

Earlier this week I heard a woman from the Ribble Valley talking about lockdown. The Ribble Valley apparently has very low numbers of covid but falls within an area of severe lockdown.

I do not understand why the local authorities have not been given more powers to take decisions as to what actions are taken.

I live in France and so was checking the rules here. I'm sure that most of you are aware that there is a traffic light system here for the departments with green having the least numbers of people affected by the virus and consequently few rules. So far like England. But here there is a further category for those areas where the numbers are higher. This colour is purple/maroon. Originally just Nice and Marseilles fell within that category but Bordeaux and Paris were added and just recently Toulouse and Lyons. In these places the lockdown is very strict.

The other difference is that Prefectures have the ability to make further rules so if Perigueux, in the Dordogne suddenly has a spike the Prefecture there could impose more stringent rules than those that apply to the rest of the department.

I do think that if more power were given to local government then more people would accept the lockdown rules.

I also think that track and trace could have been much better organised, had local services been used. I think that one town started a T & T service back in March (Stafford) which is continuing successfully. I also heard earlier in the week that some places are using the STD clinics because they are very knowledgeable about tracing about tracing people.

Part of the article I mentioned :

Lucca
"Genuinely don’t think it’s a question of political point scoring for Starmer or others to disagree with plans."

Actually, I agree with you, despite having used that expression in my own post.

EllenVannin "Asian flu 1957/8 was a more deadlier strain than this pandemic we have now as globally, it killed 2-4million when we had a count of a world population of 3 billion compared to now, 2020 where it's 7.5 billion.
So bad was Asian flu that it only took 8 months to travel from Hong Kong to the UK."

Good to know the figures. I was 19, my YB eleven and mother 41, when all three had "Asian Flu". It was horrendous but fortunately all recovered. The young wife of my EB, married a few months, not so fortunate. The consequence of having had it is that I have never had flu since - neither have I ever had a flu jab. Varying medics believe it left some with an immunity - and interesting from the point of view of different strains over the years.

I also understand that the majority of deaths in the AF epidemic from a type of Pneumonia.

I think we need a 2 week circuit breaker.

My daughter is a secondary school teacher and she says it's incredibly stressful and she and other teachers don't feel at all safe. Teachers are not allowed to wear masks, students are lax and irresponsible at following rules and directions, and she gets home exhausted. She's a single parent with 2 children at different schools. There are frequent bubble quarantines in her own school and the children's schools, and she feels it is just a huge outbreak waiting to happen.

She is not going to risk bringing any of this to me as I am still shielding due to 9 different illnesses. I have not seen my grandchildren since last Xmas and am expecting to spend this coming Xmas on my own.

Very interesting comments here! I wonder how many of you are in Tier 1 compared to those of us in Tier 2? This crisis requires a consensus of all parties in parliament so I would support a coalition type approach so that fresh eyes and ideas could be pursued! I would fully support a circuit breaker in order to stop the idiots from putting the rest of us at risk and to give healthcare plus all key workers a break! We are in debt so a bit more won’t bake that much difference in the paying it back in the future !
Starmer talks sense, Mr Bumble has lost the plot!!

Thank you mamacaz

Sadly folk just do as they want because they are shown an appalling example - Dominic Cumming, Stanley Johnston, and Margaret What'shername to mention a few. This causes resentment.

But people just use this as an excuse to justify what they want to do. Only idiots with no commonsense or responsibility would feel the urge to do the same. As another poster said yesterday, if you saw someone getting drunk and throwing themselves off a cliff, would you feel you had to do the same? Of course not.

Trouble is, most politicians et al don't remember our last pandemic !
There was a totally different response to the 1957 pandemic, without the media hysteria, without government panic and the doctors weren't fearful.

Now we have all the " high emotional content ".
The huge global scale of coverage which is likened to the end of the world, capitalism, workplaces, high streets, tourism, traditional social interaction etc etc.

Evidence gathered from the 1957 pandemic ( Asian flu ) was that people remained stoical, calm, measured and accepting.
There was very little media coverage and nobody panicked if anyone nearby happened to sneeze, unlike now where it would be catastrophic if you heard a cough.

It's not even a " second surge ", it's the first one that never went away because with the population increase the virus can stick around for 2 years and not the one year that we saw with Asian flu, as not everyone isolated as you would/ should with just the common cold.

JillyBird - Like you, I also believed BJ capable and his buffooning a clever facade in order to dodge a question he had no wish to answer. I am sadly coming to the conclusion he is incapable of getting to grips with the fine detail of most issues - and probably ever so.

I read somewhere it likely he will resign in January 2021 after the final EU withdrawal achieved without a deal?

Dinahmo - did you mean this?

I do not understand why the local authorities have not been given more powers to take decisions as to what actions are taken.

Back when the world beating test, track and trace system was begun, it was in part handed over to Sercoi, and the "NHS" system was overseen by Dido Harding - famous for the data protection failures of "Talk Talk", where she was CEO, and who were later fined £400,000 for breach of data protection laws by the UK ICO.

I suspect asking a private sector business to run this system with no history or expertise in the area might be a major factor. Maybe they struggle with Excel spreadsheets too.

There are - or were - 134 Public Health Directors across the country, with the local knowledge, skills and assets who would have been able to do a much better job in April, and who should have been involved then. Many experts - such as Prof. John Ashton - were calling for their involvement.

But oh no, Boris & Tigger just had to opt for a private sector involvement - their success in implementing a half-baked system has to be congratulated.

That said - I agree with you - I don't understand why they did not involve the local public health bodies either. After all, that is a core part of their brief. It's worth checking out what Ceredigion council did in Wales too - a much more successful approach than the NHS/Serco scheme.

Sparklefizz

^Sadly folk just do as they want because they are shown an appalling example - Dominic Cumming, Stanley Johnston, and Margaret What'shername to mention a few. This causes resentment.^

But people just use this as an excuse to justify what they want to do. Only idiots with no commonsense or responsibility would feel the urge to do the same. As another poster said yesterday, if you saw someone getting drunk and throwing themselves off a cliff, would you feel you had to do the same? Of course not.

Well said , I’ve always gone along with what you said, those you mentioned were totally out of order but because they broke the rules doesn’t mean to say we can follow suit, tit for tat, idiotic to think so no matter how fed up we all are